MetroFocus

FULL EPISODE

MetroFocus: July 21, 2021

The Center For Court Innovation’s Elise White and Basaime Spate join us for this very upfront, honest, and eye-opening conversation on gun violence and the deep-seated sub-culture that glorifies guns.

AIRED: July 21, 2021 | 0:28:19
ABOUT THE PROGRAM
TRANSCRIPT

>>> THIS IS "METROFOCUS" WITH

RAFAEL PI ROMAN, JACK FORD, AND

JENNA FLANAGAN.

>>> "METROFOCUS" IS MADE

POSSIBLE BY --

SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III.

SYLVIA A. AND SIMON B. POYTA

PROGRAMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT

ANTI-SEMITISM.

THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN

GANZ COONEY FUND.

BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ.

BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG.

THE AMBROSE MONELL FOUNDATION.

AND BY --

JANET PRINDLE SEIDLER.

JODY AND JOHN ARNHOLD.

CHERYL AND PHILIP MILSTEIN

FAMILY.

JUDY AND JOSH WESTON.

DR. ROBERT C. AND TINA SOHN

FOUNDATION.

>>> GOOD EVENING AND WELCOME TO

"METROFOCUS."

I'M JENNA FLANNIGAN.

WITH GUN VIOLENCE CONTINUING TO

RISE ACROSS THE COUNTRY,

RESEARCHERS ARE ATTEMPTING TO

UNDERSTAND WHY GUNS ARE SO

POPULAR WITH YOUNG PEOPLE.

A SURVEY FOR THE CENTER FOR

COURT INNOVATION INTERVIEWED

HUNDREDS OF YOUNG PEOPLE IN NEW

YORK CITY NEIGHBORHOODS WITH

HIGH RATES OF GUN VIOLENCE AND

ASKED THEM WHY THEY MIGHT CHOOSE

TO CARRY A GUN.

THE RESEARCHERS HOPED THAT THEIR

FINDINGS CAN GIVE US MORE

INSIGHT INTO WHAT ATTRACTS YOUNG

PEOPLE TO THESE DANGEROUS

WEAPONS WHICH COULD, IN TURN,

LEAD US TO SOLUTIONS THAT MIGHT

REDUCE GUN VIOLENCE THAT COULD

ACTUALLY WORK.

JOINING ME NOW FROM THE CENTER

FOR COURT INNOVATION ARE TWO OF

THE CO-AUTHORS OF THE SURVEY.

DEPUTY RESEARCH DIRECTOR ELISE

WHITE.

WELCOME TO "METROFOCUS."

>> THANK YOU.

GREAT TO BE HERE.

>> AND COMMUNITY-BASED RESEARCH

COORDINATOR FAITH.

>> WELCOME TO "METROFOCUS."

>> THANK YOU.

I APPRECIATE IT.

>> WE ARE SO GLAD TO HAVE YOU

BOTH HERE CONSIDERING THE WORK

THAT YOU DID.

IT SEEMS LIKE AN OBVIOUS

QUESTION TO HAVE ASKED AND THIS

SEEMS LIKE A FIRST-TIME SURVEY.

SO I'M WONDERING, WHAT WERE THE

PROCESSES OF CREATING SOMETHING

LIKE THIS THAT SEEMS PRETTY

OBVIOUS?

>> SO A LITTLE BIT OF CONTEXT

FOR YOUR VIEWERS.

THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT ACTUALLY

STOPPED FUNDING GUN VIOLENCE

RESEARCH IN THE MID-1990s, AND

SO UNLIKE OTHER PUBLIC HEALTH

CRISES, CANCER, OTHER THINGS

THAT ARE CAUSING DEATHS OF

MILLIONS OF AMERICANS, GUN

VIOLENCE IS RELATIVELY LAGGING

IN THAT REGARD.

THE OTHER PIECE THAT'S IMPORTANT

TO KNOW IS WHEN WE TALK ABOUT

GUN VIOLENCE AS A PROBLEM IT'S

ACTUALLY A HANDFUL OF DIFFERENT

PROBLEMS AND THEY SORT OF

OVERLAP AND SORT OF DON'T.

SO WE HAVE MASS SHOOTINGS WHICH

ARE IN THE NEWS A LOT, AND WE

HAVE DOMESTIC FAMILY-BASED

SHOOTINGS, WE HAVE SUICIDE, WE

HAVE POLICE SHOOTINGS AND THEN

WE HAVE URBAN SHOOTINGS.

THESE ARE ALL AREAS THAT HAVE

DIFFERENT CULTURAL FACTORS THAT

LEAD INTO THEM.

THERE ARE DIFFERENT DRIVERS AND

THERE ARE ACTUALLY DIFFERENT

WEAPONS THAT ARE INVOLVED AND SO

WHEN WE'RE COMING UP WITH

INTERVENTIONS OR POLICY

SOLUTIONS TO ADDRESS THE ISSUE

OF GUN VIOLENCE, IT'S VERY

IMPORTANT THAT WE HAVE IMPERICAL

RESEARCH IN EACH OF THESE AREAS

THAT DRIVE THE NETWORK.

SO THAT'S REALLY WHAT WE WERE

TRYING TO DO AND THAT'S WHY WE

ARE SUCH AN UNUSUAL AND FIRST

STUDY OF ITS KIND IS BECAUSE OF

THE RESEARCH.

SO WHEN WE PUT IT TOGETHER, WHAT

WE REALLY WANTED TO DO WAS LOOK

AT 16 TO 24-YEAR-OLDS BECAUSE WE

KNOW THAT THAT IS IN URBAN

SETTINGS THAT THAT'S THE AGE

USUALLY WHEN GUN VIOLENCE AND

GUN USE PEAKS AND THEN STARTS TO

DECLINE.

WE WANTED TO LOOK AT THE WIDE

VARIETY OF YOUNG PEOPLE ACROSS

THE CITY OF NEW YORK BECAUSE

HISTORICALLY THE RESEARCH THAT

HAS BEEN DONE ON URBAN GUN USE

PULLS SAMPLES FROM SCHOOLS OR

SETTINGS AND THOSE ARE LIMITED

AND THOSE ARE BIASSED SAMPLES

AND SO WHEN WE'RE TRYING TO

GENERALIZE IT OUT WE ARE NOT

ABLE TO DO THAT SO EFFECTIVELY.

SO WE WANTED TO GET OUT AND OUR

TEAM, WE HAVE AN AMAZING TEAM

WITH A BIG LIST AND HE WAS PART

OF THE FIELD WORK AT EACH STEP.

>> OF COURSE, I'D LOVE TO HEAR

WHAT THAT FIELD WORK WAS LIKE

AND YOU KNOW, I UNDERSTAND THAT

THIS IS ALSO PERSONAL TO YOU.

>> DEFINITELY.

I GREW UP IN THAT LIFE.

I LOST MY FATHER AND TWO OF MY

BROTHERS TO GUNS.

IT DEFINITELY GOT ME INTO THIS

WORK.

TO GET THIS PARTICULAR WORK DONE

IT TOOK A SOLID TEAM AND I WANT

TO GIVE A SHOUT OUT TO ANGELICA

CAMACHO AND DENNIS EVANS BECAUSE

WITHOUT THEM IT COULDN'T BE DONE

WITH THE EXPERIENCE AND

KNOWLEDGE THEY BROUGHT TO THIS

RESEARCH.

THIS RESEARCH, IT HAD NEVER BEEN

DONE BEFORE ESPECIALLY ON THE

BIG DAY WITH THE BLACK AND BROWN

COMMUNITIES.

SO IT GAVE US A CHANCE TO

CONTROL THE NARRATIVES AND

INSTEAD OF SOMEONE ELSE TELLING

OUR STORIES AND GIVING SOLUTIONS

BASED ON WHAT THEY THOUGHT IT

WAS AND IT WAS A POWERFUL DAY.

PART OF WHAT SEPARATES THIS WORK

FROM OTHER THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN

DONE IS WHEN WE STARTED IT WAS A

MUCH MORE TRADITIONAL RESEARCH

DESIGN.

SO THERE WERE RESEARCHERS AND

GRADUATE STUDENTS AND PEOPLE

THAT WERE IN THE RESEARCH FIELD

WHO WERE LESS ADVANCED THAN ONE

CAREER THAT WOULD BE GOING OUT

IN THIS INTERVIEW.

THROUGH EXPERIENCE AND A LOT OF

HARD LESSONS WE FELT THAT THAT

WAS JUST NOT GOING TO -- THEY

WERE AREN'T ABLE TO CONNECT WITH

THE POPULATION THAT WE WERE

TRYING TO REACH AND THEY ALSO

WEREN'T GETTING RESPONSES THAT

WERE HONEST OR BASED ON PEOPLE

WITH THEIR REALITIES.

>> I AGREE.

>> SO WE SHIFTED AND IT CAME ON

THE TEAM AND IMMEDIATELY ROSE TO

THE TOP END OF THE VARIETY IN

DIFFERENT WAYS AND WHAT WE

NEEDED WAS A MUCH MORE

PARTICIPATORY APPROACH MEANING

THAT THEY KNOW THEY CAN CONNECT

PARTICIPANTS IN THAT WAY.

>> I SENSE WHAT PEOPLE ARE REAL

HE HUNGRY FOR AND IF YOU CAN

SPEAK TO THIS, IS WHAT WERE THE

FINDINGS.

WHAT IS DRIVING THIS?

FOR A PERSON, PERHAPS, WHO IS AT

HOME WATCHING THIS PROGRAM ON

PUBLIC OF IT, ET CETERA, THEY

MIGHT WONDER OR NOT FULLY

UNDERSTAND WHAT IS DRIVING ALL

OF THIS, WHAT IS CAUSING THAT?

A LOT OF TIMES WHEN WE HAVE

CONVERSATIONS AROUND THE ISSUE

THAT ALWAYS COMES UP.

HOW DO YOU GO ABOUT ADDRESSING

THIS?

WHAT DID YOUR RESEARCH FIND?

>> WE FELT THAT OVERALL THE BIG

PICTURE IS SYSTEMATIC

OPPRESSION, RIGHT?

AND THEN WITH THE PANDEMIC

TAKING PLACE AND ALL OF THAT, IT

JUST ADDED ON TOP OF THE THINGS

THAT THAT WAS ALREADY THERE, AND

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT LACK OF

RESOURCES, LACK OF PLACES TO GO,

LACK OF EDUCATION AND LACK OF

FAMILY SUPPORT.

SO WHAT WE HAD FOUND WAS THAT

THESE YOUNG MEN, THEY DIDN'T

WANT TO BE A PART OF THIS, BUT

THEY WAS FORCED TO BE A PART OF

THIS, SO JUST IN THE ASPECT OF

THE GAME, RIGHT?

SO JUST LOOKING FOR THAT FAMILY

SUPPORT AND LOOKING FOR THAT

LOVE AND PROTECTION.

WHEN WE SPEAK ABOUT THE

PROTECTION, THIS IS THE PRIMARY

REASON WHY YOU HAD USED GUN,

RIGHT?

SO JUST PROTECTION FROM POLICE

AND PROTECTION FROM THE THINGS

THAT WERE GOING ON IN THEIR

NEIGHBORHOOD AND STUFF LIKE

THAT.

SO IT WAS -- I WOULD SAY AS MANY

VARIABLES THAT CAUSED THESE

THINGS, BUT OUR RESEARCH HAS

SHOWN JUST THAT MAINLY THAT IN

THE GAME, IT WAS 89% OF OUR --

88% OF THEM GOT PART OF THIS

GAME AND 60% ARE STILL ACTIVE

AND THE ULTIMATE PRIMARY REASON

IS THE FULL BODY AND EMOTIONAL

SUPPORT PROVIDING MATERIEL

SUPPORT SUCH AS MONEY, ACCESS TO

MAKING MONEY, FOOD AND HOUSING,

RIGHT?

WHAT WE HAD DISCOVERED THAT ALL

THESE THINGS TIES INTO THE

EFFECT OF SYSTEMATIC OPPRESSION,

HAVING ACCESS DENIED TO THESE

YOUNG MEN AND THEN THE LACK OF

PARENTAL SUPPORT BECAUSE IF WE

KNOW ABOUT THE HISTORY OF THINGS

WE KNOW WITH BLACK AND BROWN

FAMILIES HOW THAT IS BROKEN

DOWN, RIGHT?

A BLACK MAN GETTING ARRESTED AND

TAKEN AWAY FROM THEIR HOMES AND

THEN THE MOTHER HAS TO WORK AND

TRYING TO SUPPORT THAT AND THEN

YOU HAVE THESE YOUNG MEN THAT

SEES THAT AND WANTS TO HELP

THEIR MOTHER IN A SENSE OR WANTS

TO HAVE THEIR FAMILY AND TAKES

ON THE RULES OF ONLY WHAT THEY

KNOW AND ONLY WHAT'S PROVIDED

WITH SELLING DRUGS AND IT'S THE

QUICKEST WAY TO GET MONEY AND BE

ABLE TO HELP MOM OR HELP BROTHER

AND SISTER.

AS WHEN THEY GO OUT THERE, THEY

HAVE TO PICK UP THE GUNS BECAUSE

IT'S A SYSTEM PROTECTION BECAUSE

THEY DENIED PROTECTION AND THEY

HAVE POLICE THAT COME IN THE

NEIGHBORHOOD THAT ARE CLOSE TO

PROVIDING THINGS, BUT THEY

DON'T, RIGHT?

AND THEY'RE COMING TO ANTAGONIZE

THESE YOUNG MEN AND PUT MORE

PRESSURE ON THEM.

SO THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.

>> I'M WONDERING JUST VERY

QUICKLY THAT YOU CAN EXPLAIN

MORE BECAUSE SOMETIMES WHEN WE

TALK ABOUT THESE ISSUES PEOPLE

WILL SAY THAT THEY WEREN'T

NECESSARILY PROBLEMS

PARTICULARLY IN BLACK AND BRUN

COMMUNITIES BEFORE, THAT YOU

HAVE A GENERATION NOW THAT

DOESN'T NECESSARILY HAVE RESPECT

FOR AUTHORITY OR THEY DON'T

NECESSARILY HAVE THE SAME WORK

ETHIC THAT THEIR PARENTS'

GENERATION DID.

THESE ARE CRITICISMS THAT HAVE

BEEN LEVELED WHEN PEOPLE TALK

ABOUT THE GUN VIOLENCE ISSUE NOW

AND I'M WONDERING IF THROUGH

YOUR RESEARCH YOU WERE ABLE TO

PINPOINT OR SOMETHING SOME SORT

OF BREAKING POINT OR SOMETHING

THAT LED TO ALL OF THIS OR WAS

THIS PERHAPS LIKE A BOILING

WHERE SOMETHING JUST KEPT

GETTING HOTTER AND HOTTER AND

MORE INTENSE AND MORE INTENSE.

HOW DO YOU SEE THAT?

>> LET ME THROW A COUPLE OF

THESE, YOUNG PEOPLE ARE LIVING

IN THE CONTEXT OF REALLY INTENSE

VICTIMIZATION AND IF THEY'RE ON

NECESSARILY IT MAY ALSO BE

FAMILY MEMBER OR FRIENDS.

SO 81% OF OUR SAMPLE HAD BEEN

SHOT OR SHOT AT.

88% HAD SEEN A FAMILY MEMBER OR

FRIEND SHOT.

70% HAD WITNESSED A SHOOTING.

67% HAD BEEN ATTACKED BY A

DIFFERENT WEAPON.

SO THESE ARE VERY, VERY HIGH

RATES OF VICTIMIZATION SO

THERE'S A LOT OF TRAUMA THAT

THESE YOUNG PEOPLE ARE LIVING

WITH.

THAT'S IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND

AS A CONTEXTUAL FACTOR, KIND OF

TO YOUR POINT, RIGHT?

SO -- AND WE KNOW WHEN PEOPLE

LIVE IN TRAUMATICEN ENVIRONMEN

AND THEY HAVE PTSD AND THEY

OFTEN HAVE LOWER ABILITY TO

CONTROL EMOTIONS, AND SO WHEN

THERE ARE DISPUTES WHETHER THEY

BE WITH OTHER YOUNG PEOPLE OR

THE POLICE, IT JUST MEANS THAT

THE STAKES ARE HIGHER AND THE

STAKES ARE HIGHER AND THEY HAVE

LESS, SOMETIMES, IT DEPENDS ON

THE PERSON AND THEY HAVE LESS

ABILITY TO MANAGE THE EMOTIONAL

REACTION.

SO IT CAN BE VERY VOLATILE.

SO WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT

CONTEXTUAL FACTS WE'RE TALKING

ABOUT SYSTEMIC OPPRESSION.

WHEN WE HAVE YOUNG PEOPLE

CONSISTENTLY PUSHED OUT OF

SCHOOL ENVIRONMENTS AND THEY

COULD RECEIVE SERVICES THAT CAN

HELP AND THAT IS AN ENTRY POINT

TO LEARNING DISABILITIES

DIAGNOSED BECAUSE A LOT OF THESE

THINGS ARE RETREATABLE OR EASILY

MANAGED ONCE THE RIGHT SERVICES

ARE PUT IN PLACE.

SO WHEN THEY'RE PUSHED OUT OF

SCHOOL IN A LEARNING ENVIRONMENT

AND THEN THEY'RE IN A STREET

CONTEXT AS YOU MENTIONED FOR

SURVIVAL.

SURVIVAL FOR THE FAMILY AND

THEMSELVES THEY NEED TO EAT,

BECAUSE OF POLICE PRESENCE THEY

HAVE BEEN PULLED INTO THE

CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM AS A

MUCH, MUCH HIGHER THAN OTHER

GENERATIONS.

FOR US IN PARTICULAR THEY'RE

GROWING UP IN THE SHADOW OF STOP

AND FRISK.

THEY'RE GROWING UP IN

GENERATIONAL NOW MASS

INCARCERATION.

SOME OF THE NUMBERS ARE -- W88%

AND THESE AREN'T HIGH-LEVEL

CRIMINALS AND GUN POSSESSION

CHARGES AND EVEN ROBBERIES.

>> JUMP IN IN THE TURN STYLE AND

THINGS LIKE THAT.

ALSO, IT CREATES A GENERALIZED

FEAR, RIGHT?

THAT THEY'RE CONSTANTLY LIVING

AT AND PUT ON A MICROSCALE AND A

LOCALIZED FEAR FROM THE YOUTH

AND DO NOT KNOW HOW TO ENGAGE

FROM THAT STANDPOINT OF BEING

TRAUMATIZED OR FROM FEAR.

OR EVEN BEING FEAR OR A SENSE OF

NOT HAVING SAFETY FROM POLICE

AND THEY ARE CONSTANTLY

ANTAGONIZING OR CONSTANTLY

RIDING AROUND THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD

AND BEING TARGETED.

>> I DON'T WANT TO, I GUESS,

BELABOR THE POINT TOO MUCH, BUT

D

I DO WANT TO PUSH BACK A LITTLE

BIT BECAUSE WHEN YOU WERE

MENTIONING PEOPLE GETTING

ARRESTED FOR SOMETHING AS MINOR

AS JUMPING A TURNSTYLE, THERE IS

A PUSHBACK OF WELL, JUST DON'T

DO THAT.

WHEN YOU INTERACT WITH THE

POLICE, JUST COMPLY AND YOU

WON'T HAVE THESE PROBLEMS.

I ALSO WANT TO COMPOUND THAT

WITH THE OTHER QUESTIONS ASKED

THAT AMERICA LOVES, SAY A

BREAKTHROUGH STORY, AND SO I'M

SURE WITH EVERYTHING THAT YOU'RE

TALKING ABOUT, MOST PEOPLE CAN

PROBABLY POINT OUT AN INDIVIDUAL

OR TWO WHO HAD ALL OF THESE SAME

CIRCUMSTANCES AND THEY STILL

MADE IT.

>> YES.

AMERICA DOES LOVE THE BREAKOUT

STORY AND WE NEVER WANT TO USE

THE EXCEPTION TO PROVE THE FACT.

WE WANT TO LOOK AT WHAT ARE THE

TRENDS ACROSS.

WHERE ARE WE FINDING THE

MAJORITY OF NUMBERS COALESCING?

SO, YES, ABSOLUTELY.

THERE ARE LOW LEVEL OFFENSES AND

PEOPLE ARE COMMITTING THEM IN

SOME CASES AND IN SOME CASES

THEY AREN'T AND SO WHAT WE DID

ALSO HEAR PRETTY CONSISTENTLY

WERE STORIES OF THE POLICE

INTENTIONALLY ANTAGONIZING AND

COMING OUT TO THE COMMUNITY

ROLLING SLOWLY PAST YOUNG PEOPLE

AND THEN THROWING FOOD LIKE

THROWING THEIR FOOD AT THEM AND

DUMPING WATER ON THE GRILL WHEN

IN THE MIDDLE OF A COOKOUT.

SO IT'S EASY, I THINK,

ESPECIALLY SOMEONE LIKE ME.

THIS IS NOT MY EXPERIENCE AND

I'M LOOKING AT IT FROM THE

OUTSIDE LIKE THIS SHOULDN'T

HAPPEN OR IF THEY REALLY WANTED

TO GET ALONG OR THEY REALLY

WANTED TO WORK THINGS OUT THEY

WOULD BE ABLE TO DO THAT.

THEY JUST, YOU KNOW.

WHAT WE HEARD OVER AND OVER

AGAIN, IT'S REALLY A VERY

DIFFERENT DYNAMIC AND CONTEXT

FOR ENGAGING WITH THE POLICE AND

ONE THAT BASICALLY PUTS PEOPLE

IN A DOUBLEBIND SITUATION.

SO THEY'RE OUTSIDE MAKING MONEY

AND THE ONLY WAY THAT THEY HAVE

ACCESS TO IT AND THEN THEY'RE

CARRYING WEAPONS BECAUSE IT PUTS

THEM AT RISK WITH OTHER YOUNG

PEOPLE.

AT THE SAME TIME, THEY PROCEED

AND THEY LIVE UNDER A FEELING A

PERVASIVE SENSE OF STRENGTH FROM

THE POLICE.

IN THE CONTEXT OF THAT FEAR.

FEAR FROM THE STATE AND THEY'RE

CARRYING GUNS TO INCREASE THEIR

SENSE OF SAFETY.

AND WHEN THEY DO THAT, THAT PUTS

THEM AT GREATER RISK.

>> JUST THE HOPPING OF THE

TURNSTYLE AND WE JUST DON'T DO

THAT AND FROM THAT POINT WITH

THE FINANCIAL POINT THAT WE'RE

ABLE TO PROVIDE FOR YOUR

CHILDREN AND NEPHEWS AND WHAT

NOT, SO THEY DON'T HAVE TO TAKE

THAT ROUTE AND WE'RE TALKING

ABOUT BLACK AND BROWN

COMMUNITIES, WE'RE STILL TRYING

TO FIGURE OUT WHY WE'RE SO

FINANCIALLY BEHIND, RIGHT?

AND HOW MUCH IS IT FOR A MONTHLY

METRO CARD?

IT GOES UP EVERY YEAR LIKE $135.

SO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THAT AND

FINANCIALLY AND THE SITUATION

THAT THEIR MOTHER AND FATHER ARE

AT, IS THAT ACCEPTABLE OR CAN WE

SAY THAT FROM THAT POINT OF JUST

DON'T DO THAT OR FROM THE POINT

OF JUST COMPLY AND THESE THINGS

WON'T HAPPEN.

HOW CAN I COMPLY WHEN I AM

CONSTANTLY BEING TARGETED.

WHEN THEY'RE SLOW RIDING AROUND

AND LOOKING EXACTLY LIKE ME AND

THEN HAVING ME WONDER IF I'M

DOING SOMETHING CRIMINALLY

WRONG?

ARE YOU LOOKING AT ME AS A

CRIMINAL RIGHT NOW AS I'M

STANDING ON MY BLOCK.

SO WHEN YOU DO HOP OUT, HOW

COULD I COMPLY WITH THE WITNESS

WITH YOUR DISRESPECT AND YOU'RE

ANTAGONIZING AND YOU'RE JUST

CONSTANTLY ON ME FOR NO REASON

AND YOU ASKED ME BY NAME AND YOU

HAVEN'T TAKEN THE CHANCE TO GET

TO KNOW ME FROM THAT STANDPOINT.

SO WHEN YOU DO HOP OUT OR WHAT

NOT, YOU'RE GOING TO GET

DISRESPECT BECAUSE THE ONLY

WITNESS YOU DISRESPECT, NOT JUST

ME, BUT OTHER WITNESSES AROUND

ME AND THEN IN THE CONTEXT OF

WHAT YOU WERE SAYING BEFORE

THAT -- AFTER THAT.

>> BASICALLY, AFTER THAT I WAS

ALSO SAYING THAT IN ADDITION TO

COMPLY, THAT WE WERE TALKING

ABOUT A MINUTE AGO THAT A LOT OF

PEOPLE WERE SAYING, THERE ARE

INDIVIDUALS WHO GROW UP IN THOSE

CIRCUMSTANCES AND THEY SUCCEED

IN AMERICA OR BY NEW YORK

STANDARDS.

SO IF THEY CAN DO IT, WHY CAN'T

ANYBODY ELSE?

THAT ALSO SEEMS TO BE A

COUNTERPOINT.

>> THEN WE HAVE TO LOOK AT THE

SUPPORT SYSTEM THAT THAT PERSON

HAS TO BE ABLE TO GO THAT ROUTE

AND THEN THE CAPABILITIES OF

THAT INDIVIDUAL?

IS HOO IN THE SAME SPACE THAT HE

CAN BE ABLE TO GO THROUGH THESE

PLACES WHERE HE NEEDS TO BE

SUCCESSFUL AND BE THE BREAKOUT

STORY.

JUST FOR EXAMPLE, JUST ME

GROWING UP IN THE FOSTER SYSTEM

AND GOING AROUND AND ENJOYING

THINGS AND WHAT NOT, AND THE

OVERALL THING FOR ME WAS I HAD

SUPPORT IN THOSE THINGS SUCH AS

GOING INTO VIOLENCE AND THE

PEOPLE THAT WORK THERE AND THIS

IS MY EXPERIENCE AND THIS IS MY

LIFE AND WHAT NOT, AND I DON'T

WANT OTHER PEOPLE OR MY CHILDREN

GROWING UP IN THIS DEMOGRAPHIC

AND STARING AT THESE THINGS.

SO IT TAKES A DRIVE AND IT TAKES

SUPPORT, AND I MEAN ULTIMATE

SUPPORT FROM MULTIPLE

INDIVIDUALS FOR THAT PURPOSE TO

BE ABLE TO GO THERE AND THAT

PERSON NEEDS TO FEEL THAT YOU

ARE THERE SUPPORTING THEM

BECAUSE THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT

THEY EXPERIENCE AND ONLY PEOPLE

WHO ARE THERE SUPPORTING THEM

AND LOVING THEM AND ENCOURAGING

THEM TO BE THERE AND HAVE A

SUCCESSFUL LIFE AND THEY DON'T

HAVE THAT.

ANOTHER POINT AND ANOTHER

VARIABLE OF SYSTEMATIC

OPPRESSION.

>> OF COURSE.

OF COURSE.

OH, MY GOD, I COULD CONTINUE

WITH QUESTIONS JUST ABOUT THE

OTHER RESEARCH, BUT I DO WANT TO

PIVOT A LITTLE BIT WITH THE TIME

WE HAVE LEFT, TOO, AND THEN

SOLUTIONS.

WE'VE SEEN OVER THE PAST YEAR, A

LOT OF PROTESTS IN THE STREETS

AND PEOPLE CALLING FOR DEFUNDING

AND COMPLETELY REMOVING POLICE

FROM ESPECIALLY COMMUNITIES OF

COLOR THAT ARE LOW INCOME, BUT

AT THE SAME TIME WE'VE ALSO

HEARD FROM SOME OF THE COMMUNITY

ACTIVISTS FROM THOSE COMMUNITIES

WHO ARE SAYING NO, STOP.

WE WOULD LIKE POLICE PROTECTION.

WE JUST NEED IT TO COME IN A

DIFFERENT FORM.

BASED ON YOUR RESEARCH, THEN,

WHAT DO WE DO WITH THAT?

WHAT DOES THAT TELL YOU ABOUT

WHAT'S NEEDED?

>> BASED ON WHAT I HAVE IN MY

RESEARCH AND MY CONVERSATIONS

WITH YOU, POLICE IS THE PROBLEM.

WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT

COMMUNITY SAFETY, RIGHT?

.

FOR ME WE ARE TALKING ABOUT

SAFETY STRATEGIES OUTSIDE OF LAW

ENFORCEMENT AND SO FOR US IT'S,

LIKE, WHEN WE HAD EXAMPLES OF

THESE CREATING SAFE SPACES WHERE

THESE INDIVIDUALS CAN HAVE A

SAFE SPACE AND TALK ABOUT THESE

ISSUES AND TALK ABOUT THE

PROBLEMS THAT'S HAPPENED IN

THEIR COMMUNITY AND HOW TO BRING

THAT TOGETHER FOR THEMSELVES,

AND NOT BRINGING IN OUTSIDE

PARTS BECAUSE THE HISTORY OF

POLICE AND THE HISTORY OF HOW

THEY COME IN THESE COMMUNITIES

AND THE PROBLEMS THAT WE'RE

TALKING ABOUT, AND TO HAVE THE

STANDPOINT WITH THAT PROTECTION.

SO WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT

THAT, IT'S LIKE, LET THAT

COMMUNITY CREATE A SAFE SPACE SO

THAT COMMUNITY CAN COME IN, SUCH

AS GANG LEADERS AND SUCH AS THE

CHURCH MEMBERS AND SUCH AS THE

STORE PEOPLE AND HAVE THOSE

CONVERSATIONS ABOUT WHAT SAFETY

LOOKS LIKE FOR THAT COMMUNITY.

>> JUST TO SPEAK ABOUT WHAT HE

SAID.

OUR PARTICIPANTS WANTED

ACCOUNTABILITY AND THEY WANTED

SAFETY.

THAT'S NOT THE ISSUE AT ALL, I

THINK, IN TERMS OF

RECOMMENDATION BECAUSE OF THE

LOW LEVELS OF TRUST AND THE LOW

LEVELS OF CONFIDENCE, AND POLICE

ARE ADVOCATING AREAS TO THINK

ABOUT PUBLIC SAFETY OUTSIDE OF

THAT REALM AND WE ALSO RECOMMEND

JOB DEVELOPMENT AND JOB TRAINING

PROGRAMS THAT ARE VERY

SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED FOR YOUNG

PEOPLE WITH JUVENILE JUSTICE

INVOLVEMENT AND CRIMINAL JUSTICE

INVOLVEMENT BECAUSE THEIR

RECORD, THEIR EXPERIENCE AND

NEEDS ARE VERY SPECIFIC, AND

THEY NEED SUPPORT AND SERVICES

THAT CAN REACH BEYOND WHAT ARE

TYPICALLY PART OF JOB TRAINING

PROGRAMS.

AND THEY HAVE AGAIN, THEY WANT

JOBS AND THEY JUST NEED SOME

SUPPORT, AND THEY WANT CHANNELS

INTO THOSE JOBS.

>> WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT JOBS

WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT JOBS --

I WAS ABOUT TO ASK THAT.

>> THERE WAS A LABOR SHORTAGE

NOW.

WHEN WE TALKED ABOUT OUR CAREER

JOB, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT WHEN

THEY CAN MAKE A WELL LIVING FOR

THEMSELVES AND THEIR FAMILY AND

THEIR CHILDREN, SO WHEN WE TALK

ABOUT THE GOVERNOR IN THESE

21,000 JOBS AND WHICH JOBS DO WE

TALK ABOUT AND ARE WE JUST

PUTTING A BAND-AID ON THIS AND

YES, WE GAVE THIS SUBSET

COMMUNITY AND THE JOBS AND WE'RE

TALKING ABOUT JOBS THAT CAN

REALLY THRIVE IN AND REALLY

CREATE GENERATIONAL WEALTH,

RIGHT?

>> IN ADDITION TO THIS WE

RECOMMEND SERVICES TO YOUNG

PEOPLE AND A LOT OF

COMMUNITY-BASED ORGANIZATIONS

AND THE DOOR IS ALWAYS OPEN.

AS WE TALKED ABOUT, AND THE

INSTITUTIONS OF SORT OF THE

SYSTEM IN GENERAL AND THEY HAVE

A HARD TIME JUST BECAUSE OF

THEIR EXPERIENCE DIFFERENTIATING

ARE YOU REALLY A FRIEND?

ARE YOU AN ALLY?

CAN I TRUST YOU OR I CAN NOT?

COMMUNITY-BASED ORGANIZATIONS

CAN MAKE AN INTERVENTION AND

JUST, LIKE, PIVOTS AND SEE A BIG

IMPACT, AND I WOULD SAY ENGAGING

THESE GANG LEADERS BECAUSE

THEY'RE WILLING TO OPEN UP.

WE TALK ABOUT THE OVERALL

EXISTENCE IS FOR COMMUNITY

SAFETY AND THAT'S WHY IT WAS

CREATED IN THE FIRST PLACE

BECAUSE OF THE LACK OF

PROTECTION FROM GOVERNMENTS OR

THE LOCALIZED STATE GOVERNMENT.

SO ENGAGING MEMBERS IS A KEY

POINT WHEN WE TALK ABOUT

COMMUNITY SERVICES AND SAFETY.

AND AGAIN, THROUGH OUR RESEARCH

WE'RE WILLING TO SIT DOWN AND

TALK ABOUT THESE THINGS AND

DISCUSS THESE ISSUES AND A SENSE

OF TRUST AND ARE YOU WILLING TO

GO THAT ROUTE AND SIT DOWN AND

FIND A TRUE SOLUTION, SO THE

SAFETY AND THE COMMUNITY SAFETY

OR PUBLIC SAFETY.

I CANNOT BELIEVE THAT WE HAVE

COME TO THE END OF OUR TIME

TOGETHER BECAUSE THERE ARE SO

MANY MORE QUESTIONS I'D LOVE TO

ASK, SO I WOULD LIKE TO CONTINUE

THIS CONVERSATION.

FOR NOW I WOULD LIKE TO THANK

TWO PEOPLE FOR THE CENTER FOR

COURT INNOVATION AND CO-AUTHORS

OF THE SURVEY ON GUN VIOLENCE

AND THAT IS DEPUTY RESEARCH

DIRECTOR ELISE WHITE AND

COMMUNITY-BASED RESEARCH

COORDINATOR.

THANK YOU BOTH SO, SO VERY MUCH

FOR YOUR INSIGHT AND FOR EVEN

DOING THIS SURVEY TO GET THIS

SURVEY THAT WE'RE ALL TRYING TO

UNDERSTAND.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR

TIME TODAY.

>> THANK YOU.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>>> "METROFOCUS" IS MADE

POSSIBLE BY --

SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III.

SYLVIA A. AND SIMON B. POYTA

PROGRAMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT

ANTI-SEMITISM.

THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN

GANZ COONEY FUND.

BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ.

BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG.

THE AMBROSE MONELL FOUNDATION.

AND BY --

JANET PRINDLE SEIDLER.

JODY AND JOHN ARNHOLD.

CHERYL AND PHILIP MILSTEIN

FAMILY.

JUDY AND JOSH WESTON.

DR. ROBERT C. AND TINA SOHN

FOUNDATION.


FEATURED PROGRAMS