>>> UP NEXT, "METROFOCUS."

WE'RE WORKING FROM HOME BUT

WE'RE DEDICATED TO BRINGING YOU

THE IMPORTANT STORIES ABOUT HOW

OUR AREA IS AFFECTED BY

CORONAVIRUS.

>>> THIS IS "METROFOCUS" WITH

RAFAEL PI ROMAN, JACK FORD, AND

JENNA FLANAGAN.

>> "METROFOCUS" IS MADE POSSIBLE

BY --

JAMES AND MERRYL TISCH,

SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III,

THE SYLVIA A. AND SIMON B. POYTA

PROGRAMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT

ANTI-SEMITISM.

BERNARD AND IRENE SCHWARTZ,

ROSALIND P. WALTER,

BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG,

AND BY --

>>> GOOD EVENING AND WELCOME TO

"METROFOCUS."

I'M JENNA FLANAGAN.

TONIGHT WE CONTINUE OUR VIRTUAL

TOWN HALL FOCUSING ON SYSTEMIC

RACISM AND ON THE RACIAL

DISCREPANCIES THAT HAVE BROUGHT

US TO A PIVOTAL POINT IN

AMERICAN HISTORY.

WHAT ARE THE HISTORIC FORCES

WHAT ROLE HAS POLICING PLAYED IN

FUELING RACIAL DIVISION?

HOW HAS THE CORONAVIRUS PANDEMIC

LAID IT OFF BARE AND REINFORCED

THOSE RACIAL DISPARITIES, AND

FINALLY, IS THERE HOPE THAT

THESE PROTESTS CAN BRING ABOUT

MEAN BEINGFUL CHANGE?

JOINING ME ONCE AGAIN TO TALK

ABOUT ALL OF THIS, WE'D LIKE TO

WELCOME BACK DR. DARIN PORTER.

>> HI.

HOW ARE YOU?

>> A RETIRED NYPD LIEUTENANT AND

PROFESSOR OF JUSTICE WITH

TRAINING POLICE OFFICERS AT THE

POLICE ACADEMY.

ALSO WE'D LIKE TO WELCOME RAVI

REDBER.

>> HELLO.

>> AN IMMIGRANT RIGHTS ACTIVIST

AND EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE

NEW SANCTUARY COALITION FIGHTING

AGAINST HIS OWN DEPORTATION

SINCE 2006.

WE'D ALSO LIKE TO WELCOME DR.

CHRISTINA GREER.

>> HI THERE.

THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR OF

POLITICAL SCIENCE AT FORDHAM

UNIVERSITY, CO-HOST OF A PODCAST

AND POLITICS EDITOR AT THE GRIO.

ALSO WE HAVE TIM WISE.

>> HEY, HOW ARE YA?

>> HE IS AN ANTI-RACISM EDUCATOR

AND AUTHOR OF SEVERAL WEEKS

INCLUDING "WHITE LIKE ME" AND

FORTHCOMING COLLECTIONS AND OF

COURSE WELCOMING BACK AGAIN

GRAHAM WEATHERSPOON.

>> GOOD EVENING.

THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> GRAHAM IS A RETIRED NYPD

DETECTIVE, FOUNDING MEMBER OF

100 BLACKS IN LAW ENFORCEMENT

WHO CARE AND BOARD MEMBER OF THE

AMADOU DIALLO ORGANIZATION.

WELCOME BACK TO "METROFOCUS,"

EVERYONE.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING US.

>> THANK YOU, JENNA.

>> SO WHEN WE LAST LEFT OFF WE

WERE TALKING ABOUT THE WAY THAT

FUNDS ARE ALLOCATED AND IF THERE

IS A DISPROPORTIONATE AMOUNT OF

MONEY THAT IS BEING GIVEN TO

POLICE DEPARTMENTS AS OPPOSED TO

OTHER NEEDS IN THE COMMUNITY,

OTHER CIVIL SERVICE NEEDS AS

WELL.

AND I BELIEVE, GRAHAM, WERE YOU

POINTING OUT THAT THERE ACTUALLY

IS A -- THE DISCREPANCY YOU

BELIEVE THE DISCREPANCY IS

THERE?

>> YES, ABSOLUTELY.

AS -- AS THE DOCTOR HAD POINTED

OUT, THE PROFESSOR POINTED OUT,

WE HAVE MONEY FOR A LOT OF

THINGS EXCEPT --

>> THERE'S TWO OF US.

[ LAUGHTER ]

>> WE DO HAVE TWO DOCTORS.

THAT'S TRUE.

>> AND THE ONE, THE OTHER ONE

IS --

>> DR. GREER.

>> BETTER THAN ME.

>> I WILL AGREE WITH YOU.

BUT DR. GREER POINTED OUT, WE

HAVE MONEY FOR A LOT OF THINGS,

NOT JUST LOCALLY BUT NATIONALLY

AND IT'S ALWAYS FOR MILITARISM.

MILITARY BUDGET, IT'S ALWAYS FAR

GREATER THAN APPROPRIATIONS FOR

HELP AND SOCIAL SERVICES.

THE NEW YORK CITY POLICE

DEPARTMENT DOES HAVE ABOUT

37,000 MEMBERS BUT TO HAVE THE

HELICOPTERS WE HAVE.

WE HAVE EQUIPMENT THE GENERAL

PUBLIC HAS NO IDEA OF AND POLICE

DEPARTMENTS ARE PARA MILITARY

AND IN THAT ALL LINKED IN TO THE

FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

THEY'RE ALL LINKED INTO THE

FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

WHEN YOU SEE OFFICES IN FULL

RIOT GEAR, HELMETS, BATONS,

THAT'S A PSYCHOLOGICAL PLOY

ALSO.

WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND HOW WE ARE

BEING DAMAGED PSYCHOLOGICALLY BY

SEEING THESE PEOPLE APPROACHING

A GROUP OF PEOPLE IN THAT

MANNER.

WHAT DO PEOPLE NORMALLY DO?

THEY MAY RUN, IN THE PROCESS OF

RUNNING, PEOPLE FALL.

PEOPLE GET HURT.

YOU COULD BE COMING AROUND THE

CORNER NOT KNOWING THERE ARE 500

PEOPLE COMING UP THE BLOCK AND

YOU GET KNOCKED DOWN.

ALL OF THESE DIFFERENT PLOYS ARE

USED, BUT WHO IS IT BENEFITING?

>> TALKING MORE -- SOUNDS LIKE

YOU'RE TALKING MORE ABOUT THE

POWER STRUCTURE AND WHO THE

POLICE ARE ACTUALLY SUPPOSED TO

BE PROTECTING VERSUS POLICING.

IS THAT WHAT I'M HEARING?

>> NO.

THE IDEA OF POLICING IS NOT

ABOUT BUSTING HEADS.

THE UNIFORMED OFFICER IS THERE

TO PREVENT AND TO DETER A CRIME.

THAT'S WHY I'D RATHER SEE THE

OFFICER IN UNIFORM STANDING THAN

A CAMERA.

ALSO, WE HAVE TO ENGAGE IN

SOCIAL DISCOURSE.

WE'VE SEEN PEOPLE TALKING TO

POLICE OFFICERS.

I SAW A GUY TODAY HUG AG GING A

POLICE OFFICER.

WE NEED MORE OF THIS.

NOT THE TECHNOLOGICAL, THE

CAMERA'S ON THE WALL SO YOU

SHOULD FEEL SAFE.

NO.

WE HAVE TO LEARN HOW TO TALK TO

ONE ANOTHER AGAIN, EVEN IF WE

DISAGREE.

>> THAT'S A QUESTION I WANTED TO

POSE TO TIM, SPEAKING ABOUT

IMAGES SEEING PEOPLE HUGGING

POLICE OFFICERS.

WE'VE SEEN POLICE OFFICERS

TAKING A KNEE, MARCHING WITH

PROTESTERS, HOLDING SIGNS.

IS THAT ACTUAL PROGRESS, OR ARE

WE -- HOW DO YOU VIEW THAT, I

GUESS?

>> I MEAN I DON'T MEAN TO BE

CYNICAL BUT I NEED THOSE FOLKS

TO STOP THEIR PARTNERS FROM

MURDERING INCIDENT MEN ON THE

STREET.

I NEED THOSE FOLKS TO ACTUALLY

STAND UP AND STOP THE PROCESS OF

PROFILING AND STOP AND FRISK

THAT CONTINUES TO TAKE PLACE

AROUND COUNTRY.

I THINK IT'S GREAT, TO HUG IT

OUT.

TO BE HONEST, UNTIL THE CULTURE

OF POLICING IS FUNDAMENTALLY

CHANGED, ALL THE HUGS IN THE

WORLD ARE NOT GOING TO KEEP

BLACK PEOPLE SAFE IN THIS

COUNTRY.

WHAT CONCERNS ME IS THAT WHAT WE

ARE DOING IS, WE ARE TURNING

PEOPLE OUT ON TO THE STREET AS

COPS WHO DON'T EVEN KNOW

ANYTHING ABOUT THE COMMUNITIES

WHERE THEY POLICE.

ONE OF THE THINGS WE NEED TO DO,

I THINK, AND WE COULD BEGIN TO

DO IT BUT IT REQUIRES A

SIGNIFICANT CULTURAL SHIFT IS

SAYING IF YOU WANT TO BE A COP

IN A COMMUNITY OF COLOR IN

PARTICULAR GIVEN THE HISTORY OF

POLICING IN SUCH SPACES, WE NEED

YOU TO SPEND FOUR TO SIX MONTHS

BEFORE YOU GET THE GUN AND THE

POWER OF ARREST, YOU CAN BE ON

THE PAYROLL.

COLLECT AG ING A CHECK.

FOUR TO SIX MONTHS WALKING THE

BEAT IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD.

TALKING TO FOLKS ON THE PORCH,

IN THE BARBER SHOP, TALKING TO

PEOPLE IN THEIR PLACES OF

WORSHIP AND ON THE CORNER.

END OF SIX MONTHS AFTER YOU GET

TO KNOW THEM BEFORE YOU GET TO

CONTROL AND DOMINATE THEM, WHEN

YOU GET TO KNOW THEM END OF THE

SIX MONTHS THE COMMUNITY VOTES

ON YOU.

THE COMMUNITY GOETS TO VOTE

WHETHER OR NOT YOU GET TO BE A

POLICE OFFICER IN THEIR

COMMUNITY.

IF WE DID THAT THINK HOW MUCH

BETTER FOR EVERYONE?

IF I'M THE COP, NOW I'VE GOTTEN

A CHANCE TO KNOW EVERYBODY OR

MOST OF THE PEOPLE IN THAT

NEIGHBORHOOD, WHEN THEY SEE ME,

THEY'RE NOT GOING TO FEAR ME

BECAUSE THEY KNOW ME.

I SHOWED THEM PICTURES OF MY

KIDS.

THEY SHOWED MO ED ME PICTURES OR

KIDS.

I LISTENED LIKE A COMMUNITY

ORGANIZER.

NOT LIKE AN OCCUPIER OR SOLDIER.

LIKE AN ORGANIZER TO WHAT THEIR

HOPES AND DREAMS ARE.

END OF THE SIX MONTHS THAT

COMMUNITY'S MORE LIKELY TO TRUST

ME AND GOOD NEWS IS, IF I'M

SOMEBODY THAT DOESN'T WANT TO

SUBMIT TO THAT VETTING PROCESS

I'M PROBABLY GOING TO BE

SELF-SELECT OUT OF THE

PROFESSION OF POLICING.

GOOD.

THEN WE DON'T HAVE TO MESS WITH

YOU AND WAIT SIX YEARS DOWN THE

LINE WHEN YOU BRUTALIZE SOMEBODY

AND NOW THE CITY'S GOT TO PAY

MILLIONS OF DOLLARS, WHICH

DOESN'T COME OUT OF COPS BUDGET

BUT THE GENERAL REVENUES OF THE

CITY.

THERE'S NO INCENTIVE FOR THEM TO

BEHAVE WHEN THEY'RE NOT HAVING

TO ACTUALLY FEEL THE PAIN.

WE NEED TO BE PRE-SCREENING AND

GIVEN AUTONOMY AND

SELF-CONFIRMENATION TO BLACK AND

BROWN PEOPLES TO DECIDE WHO'S

GOING TO POLICE THEIR STREETS.

>> TWO VERY IMPORTANT -- WHAT

WAS THAT?

>> GOING TO SAY IF WE WOULD DO

THAT WE WOULDN'T END THE PROBLEM

BUT IT WOULD CERTAINLY MINIMIZE

THE EXTENT OF THE PROBLEM AND

WOULD EMPOWER THE COMMUNITY TO

DETERMINE ITS OWN FUTURE AND ITS

FATE.

>> AND SOMETHING THAT WAS SAID,

BECAUSE --

>> ABOUT TO GO TO YOU, DR.

GREER.

>> AND THIS IS A RADICAL SHIFT

HOW WE THINK ABOUT POLICING.

IT'S POSSIBLE.

I MEAN, THE PROBLEM IS SO MANY

PEOPLE SAID, WE JUST CAN'T DO

IT.

BUT AS MY GRANDMOTHER SAID, WE

PUT A MAN ON THE MOON.

I THINK WE CAN FIGURE THIS OUT.

ALSO RECOGNIZE THAT PROSING, I

WOULD SAY, A REAL SUBSTANTIVE

WAY TO VIEW OW A POLICE OFFICER

INTERACTS WITH THEIR COMMUNITY

THAT GIVES COMMUNITY AGENCIES

AND IT'S NOT ABOUT DOMINATING,

AND WE HAVE TO BE REALLY HONEST

ABOUT THE NUMBER OF WHITE

NATIONALLIES WHO INFILTRATED OUR

POLICE DEPARTMENT AND WE DON'T

LIKE TO TALK ABOUT IT, TALK

ABOUT THE TATTOOS WE SEE ACROSS

THE COUNTRY AND DON'T LIKE TO

TALK ABOUT THE RECRUITMENT SOME

OF THE WHITE NATIONALISTS HAVE

HAD TO JOIN POLICE OFFICERS FOR

THE SIMPLE FACT THEY ARE ALLOWED

TO GO INTO OTHER PEOPLE'S

COMMUNITIES AND DOMINATE BECAUSE

THEY KNOW THEY'LL BE LITTLE

REPERCUSSIONS.

EVERY NOW AND THEN A POLICE

OFFICER ARRESTING A CIVILIAN,

WHO'S BLACK AND TIME AND TIME

WE'VE SEEN OFFICERS FIRED OR

MOVED TO A DIFFERENT POLICE

STATION.

STILL COLLECTING A CHECK.

STILL COLLECTING A PENSION AND

IT'S THE CITIZENS WHO PAY FOR

THEIR BAD BEHAVIOR.

I HAVE NO PROBLEM FAMILIES

RECEIVING MONEY FOR LOSS OF A

LOVED ONE BUT RAMPANT MILLIONS

AND MILLIONS OF DOLLARS THAT

CITIES HAVE TO PUT OUT FOR BAD

MISBEHAVIOR YEAR AFTER YEAR IS

INSANE.

WHY ARE WE SPENDING HUNDREDS OF

MILLIONS OF DOLLARS ON THE BACK

END TO PAY FAMILIES FOR FAMILY

MEMBERS MURDERED WHEN WE SHOULD

PAY ON THE FRONT END TO PROPERLY

RECRUIT AND TRAIN PEOPLE WHO

DON'T SEE BLACK AND LATIN

EXPERIENCES, PEOPLE WHO DON'T

FEEL SAFE SEEING A MAN WEARING A

SHIRT IN FLOOFLUORESCENT AND ST

HANDCUFF HIM AND PEPPER SPRAY

HIM.

THEY SAY BLACK AND BROWN SKIN

AND THEY SEE CRIMINALS.

NOT RESPECTED IN THE COMMUNITY.

THINK THE COMMUNITY IS FILLED

WITH ANIMALS AND THUGS AND UNTIL

WE ARE REALLY THINKING MORE

CREATIVELY, CRITICALLY AS IS

SUGGESTED WE'RE GOING TO SEE

PROTESTS TIME AND TIME AGAIN AND

OUR CITIES WILL CONTINUE DO BURN

AND FOCUS ON LOOTING AND

PROPERTY DAMAGE AND NOT ON THE

PEACE AND THE JUSTICE.

JUSTICE HAS TO COME BEFORE THE

PEACE.

UNTIL WE FOCUS ON THAT, THAT END

OF THINGS, THEN WE SHOULD JUST

STRAP ON FOR A LONG, NOT JUST

HOT SUMMER IN 2020 BUT A REAL

SUSTAINED EFFORT, BECAUSE I

THINK A LOT OF AMERICAN CITIZENS

HAVE JUST HAD IT.

WE CAN'T KEEP HAVING THIS SAME

CONVERSATION YEAR AFTER YEAR

ABOUT YOUNG BLACK MEN AND BLACK

WOMEN BEING MURDERED BY THE

POLICE.

>> THIS QUESTION, THEN WORKS

GO -- AGAIN, ANYONE ON THE PANEL

CAN ANSWER THIS, BUT DOES AN

IDEA LIKE THE ONE THAT WAS

PROPOSED, IS THAT REALLY, WOULD

IT BEGIN TO GET AT THE

STRUCTURAL RACISM THAT SORT OF

IS BAKED INTO AMERICAN SOCIETY?

DOES THAT BEGIN TO UNRAVEL IT OR

ADDRESS IT OR DOES THAT, AS WE

DEAL WITH IT, IN THIS ONE AREA,

THIS ONE AVENUE OF POLICING?

>> RACISM IS THE SPINE OF THIS

COUNTRY.

AND YOUR SPINAL COLUMN IS

ATTACHED TO EVERY ORGAN AND

EVERY MUSCLE OF YOUR BODY.

SO IF YOUR SPINE IS DEFECTIVE,

IT'S GOING TO BE MANIFESTED.

THAT AREA OF THE SPINE THAT'S

DEFECTIVE WILL AFFECT AN ORGAN

IT IS TIED TO.

IN AMERICA THE ENTIRE COUNTRY IS

TIED TO RACISM.

WHEN I ENT ARED THE TRANSIT PLIT

DOCTOR TOLD ME I HAD HEART

MURMUR.

I DIDN'T.

I WAS A COMPETITIVE RUNNER.

NO WAY IN THE WORLD I COULD HAVE

A HEART MURMUR.

I SPOKE TO HIM IN MEDICAL

TERMINOLOGY AND HE WAS SHOCKED.

HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT?

YOU WENT TO SCHOOL, RIGHT?

YEAH.

I WENT TO SCHOOL.

THEN SAYS, WELL, OKAY.

FORGET ABOUT IT.

GO AND GET YOUR HEARING CHECKED.

SYSTEMATICALLY TELLING BLACK MEN

THEY HAD HEART MURMURS AND COULD

NOT GET THE JOB WITH THE POLICE

DEPARTMENT.

ONE BLACK WOMEN WERE BEING HIRED

THEY TOLD THEM THAT THEY HAD

SCOLIOSIS OF THE SPINE.

YOU MIGHT AS WELL TELL AN ASIAN

PERSON THEIR EYES ARE CLOSED

THEY NEED TO OPEN THEIR EYES.

THAT IS PART OF THE SYSTEMIC

RACISM EVEN IN THE HIGH RANK

PROCESS.

AND I'VE ENDURED IT.

I'VE BEEN ATTACKED BY WHITE

POLICE OFFICERS, WHILE WORKING

IN MIDTOWN MANHATTAN.

ALL RIGHT?

BECAUSE I WAS A BLACK MAN

RUNNING DOWN THE STREET DOING MY

JOB.

I WAS ATTACKED.

ALMOST COST THEM THEIR LIVES,

BUT I WAS ATTACKED BY TWO

OFFICERS BECAUSE I WAS BLACK.

I WASN'T A WHITE GUY JOGGING.

I WAS A BLACK GUY RUNNING DOWN

THE STREET WITH NO ALARM OR

CHAOS.

>> UH-HUH.

>> RACISM IS THE BANE OF THIS

COUNTRY AND UNTIL WE START

DEALING WITH IT, I BELIEVE AN

OFFICER SHOULD TAKE A POLYGRAPH

EXAM TO JOIN THE FBI, YOU HAVE

TO TAKE A POLYGRAPH EXAM AND

YOU'RE GOING TO TAKE MORE THAN

ONE.

IF AN OFFICER IS WORKING IN A

HOUSE WHICH IS A HIGH CRIME

AREA, HE NEEDS TO HAVE A

PSYCHOLOGICAL EXAM EVERY TWO TO

THREE YEARS IN MY OPINION.

THERE WERE GUYS THAT PREFER

WORKING IN AN AHOUSE BECAUSE

THEY KNOW THEY CAN GO IN THERE

AND THEY CAN BUST PEOPLE UP AND

NO ONE'S GOING TO SAY ANYTHING.

>> WELL, I ALSO WANT TO ASK YOU

ABOUT THIS, BECAUSE YOU HAVE

SPOKEN A LOT ABOUT PEOPLE

CALLING OUT RACISM WHEN THEY SEE

IT.

BUT THE EASY PUSHBACK COULD BE,

IT COULD BE IF PEOPLE AREN'T AS

AWARE OF IT AND THE WAY THAT TIM

DESCRIBED, DR. GREER DESCRIBED,

GRAHAM JUST DESCRIBED, HOW CAN

YOU EXPECT PEOPLE TO CALL OUT

SOMETHING THAT THEY DON'T FULLY

UNDERSTAND AND AREN'T

CONSCIOUSLY AWARE OF?

>> THAT'S A REALLY IMPORTANT

POINT.

BECAUSE WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE

COMMUNITY ITSELF, SORRY, NOT THE

COMMUNITY, BUT OVERALL AT OUR

COUNTRY AND OUR WORLD WHERE THE

COLOR OF YOUR SKIN IS PRIVILEGE.

THAT'S SOMETHING I WOULD ASK

PEOPLE TO MEASURE.

SO I MAY BE BLACK BUT I AM

LIGHTER SKINNED THAN SOMEONE

ELSE I HAVE MORE PRIVILEGE.

SO IF WE ARE DETERMINED TO BE

TREATED BY OTHERS BY COLOR OF

THE SKIN THAT IS A MEASURE --

THAT IS A RACISM YOU HAVE SPOKEN

ABOUT AND YOU HAVE TO CHECK

YOURSELF.

WE HAVE TO BE TALKING ABOUT IT.

IT IS NOT JUST ENOUGH, BUT IF WE

HAVE A SOCIETY WITH RACISM, WHAT

DOES IT LOOK LIKE?

WITHOUT RACISM, WHAT DOES IT

LOOK LIKE?

WE ARE NOT GOING TO THAT

QUESTION.

TIM GAVE A REALLY GOOD EXAMPLE

OF BEING CREATIVE, AND DELIVER

THIS, ADDRESS THE ISSUE BEFORE

IT -- SOMETHING WE HAVE TO START

THINK OF.

CREATIVITY.

ANOTHER VERY IMPORTANT THING IS

POLICING IS ALSO, PART OF THE

PROBLEM OF POLICING IS PROPERTY.

NOT ONLY PROPERTY, NOT ONLY

POLICING BUT THE AMERICAS, WHEN

YOU TALK ABOUT THIS, EVERYTHING

EVOLVES AROUND PROPERTY AND NOT

HU

HUMAN LIFE.

EASY FOR PEOPLE TO PROTECT THE

PROPERTY.

TALKING ABOUT THE -- THE

DESIGNER SHOES.

YEAH.

THAT'S ALL BAD, CRIMINAL.

THE FACT IS, IT'S THEIR PROPERTY

WHEN TALKING ABOUT MICHAEL

JORDAN, GEORGE FLOYD, TALKING

ABOUT LIVES.

WE NEED TO START CHANGING THE

CONVERSATION ABOUT THE HUMANITY

OF EACH OTHER AND I ALWAYS COME

BACK TO DR. MARTIN LUTHER KING.

HE WAS A VISIONARY.

A VISIONARY, DOESN'T SPEAK TO

THE MOMENT, SPEAKS TO THE FUTURE

AND GIVEN US A BLUEPRINT OF THE

FUTURE NOT A COLOR OF THE SKIN

BUT BY THE CHARACTER THAT WE

HAVE THAT IS GOING TO BE WHERE

WE GO TO, OF COURSE, AND DOCTOR,

BEFORE WE MOVE ON FROM THIS

POINT, YOU'VE ACTUALLY DONE

TRAINING OF OFFICERS.

I WONDER IF SOME OF THE THINGS

YOU'RE HEARING IN THIS

DISCUSSION, DOES THIS RING TRUE?

RING POSSIBLE?

ARE THESE THINGS THAT HAVE

ALREADY BEEN PERHAPS CONSIDERED

AT THE ACADEMY?

WHAT'S YOUR THOUGHTS ON THIS?

>> WELL, I THINK THE

PROFESSIONAL DEVELOPMENT

COMPONENT IS MULTIFACETED AND

ONE OF THE REAL ISSUES WE HAVE

WITH MEMBERS OR SWORN POLICE

OFFICERS IS THERE HASN'T BEEN A

REAL, A WIDE AND DEEP

INVESTIGATION INTO THIS.

PSYCHOLOGICAL MIND STATE.

BASICALLY WHO THEY WERE BEFORE

THEY BECAME POLICE OFFICERS.

I THINK THE FOUNDATION OF WHO AN

INDIVIDUAL IS WILL TELL US, WILL

PRESENT A TELL TALE SIGN HOW

INVOLVED AS POLICE OFFICERS MAKE

AG LAWFUL ARREST, DEALING WITH

THE PUBLIC ON THE STREET?

THINGS TO THAT NATURE.

AS A RESULT I DON'T FEEL THE

APPLICANT PROCESS HAS BEEN

INTRODUCING A JUST, IN THE

BACKGROUND INVESTIGATIONS AND

THE PSYCHOLOGICAL COMPONENT IN

BRINGING THESE OFFICERS IN.

IF IT'S POORLY ROOTED IT WILL

ONLY MANIFEST INTO SOMETHING

WORSE.

THAT'S ONE OF THE KEY THINGS WE

NEED A GREATER FOCUS ON AND I

THINK A LOT OF TIMES I'VE

TRAINED OFFICERS -- TRAINED

THOUSANDS OF POLICE OFFICERS IN

THE NYPD'S POLICE ACADEMY.

KIND OF DIFFICULT TO MAKE THE

ASSESSMENT FROM A SUPERVISORY

PERSPECTIVE.

GRAHAM POINTED OUT, A PAI

PARAMILITARY OPERATION.

IT'S PRIMARILY YES, SIR, NO,

SIR.

THAT'S NOT THE ENVIRONMENT TO

MAKE THE ASSESSMENT.

THE ASSESSMENT SHOULD HAPPEN

PRIOR TO BECOMING A MEMBER OF

THE DEPARTMENT.

TIM BROUGHT IN A VALID POINT IN

THAT, LET'S SEE HOW THESE

OFFICERS CAN FUNCTION IN THE

COMMUNITIES OF COLORS BE IT THE

BLACK AND BROWN COMMUNITIES.

I THINK THAT'S A VERY NECESSARY

STEP.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HAPPENS

IN THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, NO THE

JUST NYPD BUT NATIONALLY, YOU

HAVE A COMPONENT WE REFER TO AS

FIELD TRAINING.

WHERE YOU DIP YOUR FOOT IN TO

THE WATER TO ASSESS YOUR ABILITY

TO, TO PRODUCE.

I SHOULD SAY PRODUCE, ACT AS A

POLICE OFFICER IN THAT

ENVIRONMENT.

THAT FIELD TRAINING COMPONENT IS

FAR TOO SHORT.

I THINK THE FIELD TRAINING

COMPONENT SHOULD BE THE KWISH

L

EQUIVALENT OF THE ACADEMY OF SIX

MONTHS TACTICAL LEARNING AND SIX

MONTHS IN THE STREETS.

SIX MONTHS IN A CLASSROOM

TALKING TALK AND SIX MONTHS

PRACTICAL LEARNING AND THEN WE

HAVE A REASSESSMENT AND

EVALUATION.

IF THAT PERSON IS DEEMED FIT TO

GO AND POLICE OUR SOCIETY.

>> THESE ALL SOUND LIKE GREAT

SUGGESTIONS FOR THE POLICE

DEPARTMENT, BUT I'M WONDERING

FOR THE PROTESTERS, AGAIN, THE

PEACEFUL PROTESTERS, WHO ARE ON

THE STREET, WHO ARE CALLING FOR

CHANGE.

WHO ARE DEMANDING THAT THINGS

CHANGE AND THAT THEY'VE HAD

ENOUGH.

IS THERE A CLEAR GOAL HERE?

BECAUSE -- I MEAN, WE KNOW WHAT

THESE CONCERNS ARE BUT DO WE

KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THE GOAL IS

AND IS THERE ANY INDICATION AS

TO HOW WE GET THERE?

>> WELL, I BELIEVE THE GOAL OF

THE PROTESTERS IS TO EFFECT

CHANGE AND DISRUPTION

UNFORTUNATELY IS THE MEANS THAT

WE EFFECT CHANGE.

WHEN WE LOOK AT -- AS WE LOOK AT

THE HISTORY AND THE REVOLUTION

OF OUR SOCIETY, IT'S ALWAYS BEEN

HOW YOU CAN DISRUPT THE SYSTEM

AND THAT WILL CREATE CHANGE.

I'M ALL FOR THAT.

THE CONSTITUTION, THESE

CONSTITUTIONALLY PROTECTED

DEMONSTRATIONS FALL WITHIN THE

PURVIEW OF THAT.

JUST WE HAVE FEW OUTLIERS, SO TO

SPEAK, THAT ARE SHROUDING THE

MESSAGE, BUT THE MESSAGE SHOULD

BE, HOW SDO WE GET TO THAT POIN

JT EVOLVING TO THAT POINT WE

NEED A DISCOURSE WITH PROPER

ST

STAKEHOLDERS TO ENSURE NOT JUST

THE PLATES ON THE TABLE BUT THE

EXECUTION PHASE AS WELL.

WE ALWAYS HAVE THESE TABLETOPS

AND COMMITTEES AFTER WE HAVE

INSTANCES SUCH AS WHAT RECENTLY

HERE BE IT ERIC GARNER OR WHAT

HAPPENED WITH MR. FLOYD AND GO

BACK TO BUSINESS AS USUAL A

COUPLE MONTHS LATER.

NEVER A SUSTAINED --

>> VIOLENCE CONTINUES?

>> RIGHT.

WE RE-EVALUATE THREE TO SIX

MONTHS DOWN THE LINE AND MAKE

ADJUSTMENTS.

POLICING FROM A PROFESSIONAL

DEVELOPMENT PERSPECTIVE IS MORE

CHECKING OFF THE BOXES SO WE CAN

MOVE ON, BUT WE NEED TO

IMPLEMENT THAT SUSTAINMENT

PIECE, A RE-EVALUATION AND THEN

MAKE THE ADJUSTMENTS AS

NECESSARY.

SO WHEN YOU SPEAK TO WHAT IS THE

SOLUTION, OR WHAT DO WE

RECOMMEND?

OR WHAT ARE WE ASKING FOR AS A

RESULT OF THE PROTESTS, WE'RE

REALLY LOOKING TO EFFECT CHANGE,

A CHANGE THAT IS SOUND AND

CONSISTENT.

NOT JUST, OKAY.

WE'LL GIVE YOU SOMETHING TODAY

AND GO BACK TO BUSINESS AS USUAL

SIX MONTHS LATERANT OKAY.

TIM -- I'M SORRY.

>> AND ASK FOR THIS MOVEMENT

RIGHT NOW.

AS THE NEED FOR CHANGE IS THE

POLICE WE TALKED ABOUT, TO A --

WHICH IS NOT GIVING INFORMATION

ABOUT POLICE OFFICERS WHO ARE

BEING -- WHO ARE BEING

TROUBLESOME AND FREE IT OF -- I

FORGET.

IT WOULD TREAT -- OH, YEAH,

REPERCUSSIONS.

EVERY OFFICER WHO BRUTALIZED THE

COMMUNITY HAS TO FACE -- AND

REPERCUSSIONS.

WHY HAVE THESE OFFICERS NOT BEEN

CHARGED?

THE FOUR OF THEM.

WHY HAVE THEY NOT BEEN CHARGED?

AND EVERYONE SHOULD BE CHARGED

WHO ARE BRUTALIZING OUR

COMMUNITY.

>> JENNA?

>> ONE QUICK THING.

>> UH-HUH.

>> IN ORDER TO INVOKE CHANGE,

YOU HAVE TO GO IN.

I COULDN'T HAVE GOTTEN INVOLVED

IN ANY OF THIS HAD I NOT GOTTEN

IN TO THE TRANSIT POLICE

DEPARTMENT WHEN I DID.

HAD NO INTENTIONS OF BEING A

POLICE OFFICER.

I WAS IN FULL-TIME MINISTRY

BEFORE I WENT INTO THE POLICE

DEPARTMENT.

SO FIGURE THAT OUT.

BUT QUESTION NEED OUR YOUNG

PEOPLE TO TAKE THE EXAM AND TAKE

THESE JOBS.

NOT JUST TO BE A POLICE OFFICER

TO BE A SERGEANT, TO BE A

LIEUTENANT, A CAPTAIN AND THEN

INSPECTOR.

THE NOT ENOUGH TO BE THE PAWN ON

THE BOARD.

WE NEED BETTER LEADERSHIP, AND

IT IS INCUMBENT UPON OUR YOUNG

FOLKS TO TAKE THESE CIVIL

SERVICE EXAMS.

IF YOU'RE NOT GOOD ENOUGH, TOO

GOOD TO LIVE IN NEW YORK CITY

THEN YOU NEED TO WORK WHERE YOU

LIVE.

>> I THINK ALSO, THOUGH, GRAHAM,

YOU KNOW, WHAT WORRIES ME IS

THAT SOME OF THE POLICE VIOLENCE

WE'VE SEEN IS AT THE HANDS OF

BLACK POLICE OFFICERS.

>> TRUE.

>> SO THERE'S THIS DESCRIPTIVE

AND SUBSTANTIVE REPRESENTATION

WE HAVEN'T TALKED ABOUT WITH

ELECTED OFFICIALS TO ALWAYS

REMEMBER THE POLICE DEPARTMENT

AS WELL.

WHEN WE THINK ABOUT THE KILLERS

OF BLACK MEN AND WOMEN THAT'S

HAPPENED IN THE PAST FOUR, FIVE

YEARS, IT'S BEEN LATINX AND

WHITE POLICE OFFICERS, BLACK

POLICE OFFICERS HELPED THEM

COVER IT UP.

SEEN A BLUE WALL HARD TO

PENETRATE.

WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE THE TYPES

OF BLACK PEOPLE AND LATINX

PEOPLE WE WANT TO -- ACTUALLY

UNDERSTAND WHAT TIM WAS TALKING

ABOUT.

REAL RACIAL JUSTICE ELEMENT.

NOT JUST ABOUT THE JOB.

WE KNOW HOW WHITE SUPREMACISTS

ARE.

YOU DON'T NEED THAT -- SAME WITH

WOMEN, VERY STRONG WOMEN AS

WELL.

IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT THE TYPES OF

QUALITY FOR THE COMMUNITY WE

WANT TO GET TO YOU'RE RIGHT.

>> WHO WANT TO MAKE A CHANGE IN

THEIR COMMUNITIES AND MAYBE PULL

PEOPLE FROM SOCIAL JUSTICE AND

CERTAIN ORGANIZATIONS BUT A

FAMILY, POLICE DEPARTMENTS HAVE

GOTTEN SUCH A NEGATIVE

REPUTATION BECAUSE PEOPLE DON'T

GROW UP THINKING I WANT TO BE A

POLICE OFFICER.

NO NOT IN A BLACK COMMUNITY.

I GREW UP IN AN UPPER

MIDDLE-CLASS BLACK COMMUNITY.

EVER IN TROUBLE GO TO A BLACK

PERSON.

NOT A POLICE OFFICER.

RIGHT?

AND THAT'S FROM MY PARENTS WHO

WERE CORPORATE AMERICA.

BUT THEY UNDERSTOOD THE DANGERS

THAT POLICE COULD PROVE TO THEIR

CHILDREN, JUST PEOPLE IN UNIFORM

WHO DON'T SEE ME AS A CHILD BUT

POSSIBLY SEE ME AS A THREAT JUST

BY MY EXISTENCE.

>> GRAHAM -- SORRY.

TIM FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE, WHAT

ARE THE GOALS THAT YOU THINK,

NOT ONLY THAT THIS MOVEMENT

NEEDS TO AT LEAST DEFINE, BUT

THAT, AGAIN, HOW WHITE PEOPLE

CAN HELP US GET THERE?

>> LOOK, THEY HAVE THE-OF-TO

FIND THEM.

THE MOVEMENT FOR BLACK LIVES,

THE WEBSITE LAST TIME I CHECKED

HAVE AN ENTIRE POLICY PLATFORM.

NOT ONLY WITH REGARDS TO

CRIMINAL JUSTICE REFORM BUT

EDUCATION REFORM, BUDGETARY

REFORMS.

REFORMS WITH REGARD TO HOUSING.

HEALTH CARE.

EVERY POSSIBLE AREA OF PUBLIC

POLICY.

I WOULD DIRECT PEOPLE TO THAT.

OTHER GROUPS LIKE THE MALCOLM X

GRASS ROOTS MOVEMENT TALKING

ABOUT THE SMITH THINGS I MENTIO

VETTING OF POLICE AND HAVING THE

COMMUNITY HAVE

SELF-DETERMINATION OVER THAT.

I DIDN'T COME UP WITH THAT ON MY

OWN.

SOMETHING THEY'VE TALKED ABOUT A

LONG TIME.

KEY FOR WHITE FOLKS IS WE NEED

TO STOP WITH THIS IDEA OF

INDIVIDUALIZING THE PROBLEM AND

SO THE WHOLE -- FEW BAD APPLES

THEORY.

WE HAVE AN ORCHARD ROTTING AT

THE ROOT OF THE TREE.

IT ISN'T A FEW BAD APPLES,

BECAUSE THE SYSTEM OF POLICING,

JUST BE HONEST, WAS ESTABLISHED

FOR THE PURPOSE OF DOMINATION

AND CROM AND MORE TO THE POINT

PROTECTING WHITE PEOPLE'S

PROPERTY FROM THE PERCEIVED

THREAT OF BLACKNESS.

THAT WAS ITS PURPOSE.

IF YOU WANTED TO DO SOMETHING

OTHER THAN THAT, WHICH PERHAPS

IT'S CAPABLE OF DOING, BUT IF

YOU WANT THAT, YOU DON'T JUST

TRAIN YOUR WAY OUT OF IT.

YOU DON'T TINKER WITH THE

MACHINERY.

YOU CHANGE THE MACHINE.

TO DO OTHERWISE IS LIKE STANDING

A THE END OF A CONVEYOR BELT IN

A SAUSAGE FACTORY WONDERING WHY

IT'S NOT GIVING YOU CHICKEN

NUGGETS.

IT'S A SAUSAGE FACTORY.

THAT'S WHAT IT DOES.

YOU OUGHT TO EXPECT SAUSAGE.

IF YOU WANT CHICKEN NUGGETS YOU

HAVE TO BUILD A DIFFERENT

MACHINE FROM THE GROUND UP.

>> WELL I THINK THAT'S WHERE

WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO LEAVE IT.

I THANK ALL OF MY GUESTS.

ALL OF YOU.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR

PARTICIPATING IN THIS VIRTUAL

TOWN HALL.

TO CONTINUE THE CONVERSATION,

PLEASE JOIN US AT METROFOCUS.ORG

AND ON FACEBOOK.

THANK YOU ALL FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> THANK YOU, GENERJENNA.

>> WONDERFUL.

THANK YOU.

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>>> "METROFOCUS" IS MADE

POSSIBLY BY --

JAMES AND MERRYL TISCH,

SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III,

THE SYLVIA A. AND SIMON B. POYTA

PROGRAMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT

ANTI-SEMITISM.

BERNARD AND IRENE SCHWARTZ,

ROSALIND P. WALTER,

BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG,

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