Counter Culture


Counter Culture Season 3 Ep. 9

Joseph Buches, Philadelphia Gay Men’s Chorus; Patrice Banks, Founder of Girls Auto Clinic; Darla DeMorrow, Author, “Sort and Succeed,” Certified Professional Organizer and owner of Heartwork Organizing.

AIRED: March 24, 2020 | 0:28:00


-Welcome to "Counter Culture," a talk show in a diner.


Tonight's show, I welcome the artistic director

of the Philadelphia Gay Men's Chorus,

Joseph Buches...

-And the message is always uplifting and hopeful,

and it's nice to have the music sending a positive message,

enlightening the community.


-...the founder of Girls Auto Clinic,

Patrice Banks...

-I describe it as a female-empowerment company,

and we offer automotive buying and repair resources,

services, and products to women by women.

-...and the author of "Sort and Succeed,"

certified professional organizer Darla DeMorrow.

-Myself, my team -- we are puzzle solvers.

An individual may have what they feel is a mess.

We're looking at it as. "How can we solve this puzzle?

How can we make this better?"

-All right here on "Counter Culture."


Hi, folks.

Grover Silcox coming to you from Daddy Pop's Diner

in beautiful downtown Hatboro.


My first guest is the artistic director

for the renowned Philadelphia Gay Men's Chorus,

a group that entertains audiences, supports communities,

and fosters acceptance through exceptional musical performance.

Please welcome Joe Buches to the counter!

-Thank you for having me. -Joe, good to see you.

-Thank you.

-Well, you got away from a rehearsal,

or do you have to go to one?

-That's where I'm heading after this.

[ Laughs ] -Right after this. Okay.

Well, the choir is so well-known, of course,

inside Philadelphia and outside.

But it all begin with a few Christmas carolers. Am I right?

-In 1981, four people, including the founder,

went out to the bars to sing Christmas carols.

And that following spring in 1982,

they had their first concert with about --

probably like 15 singers.

-And how many members are there today?

-We have about 150 members now.

-Wow. That's a big increase since the beginning.

And you've celebrated your 25th anniversary.

What are you going on now?

-We are in our 38th season, so in two years,

we'll be celebrating our 40th anniversary.

-Wow. And what is the -- It's more than just singing.

There's the purpose of inclusiveness and community.

Talk about that a little.

-So, we have a strong

DAI initiative with our strategic plan

where anybody could join the chorus.

You don't have to be from Philadelphia.

You don't have to be gay. You don't have to be a man.

As long as you can sing in the tenor through bass range

and audition -- it is an audition group,

but anyone could join, and we include everybody.

We have a lot of different folks, which is great.

-At the auditions, you want to get sort of an idea

of where they are musically?

-Correct. Yeah, as long as they, you know --

I take interest in different musical exercises,

and as long as they could match up

with three out of four, then they usually get in.

-Right. Now, how did you get involved?

I knew you were a music major.

-I was a music major and choral conductor,

and I taught for 22 years.

While I was teaching, back in 2004, a friend of mine --

actually, I was singing with the Rainbow Chorale of Delaware,

another LGBTQ chorus, and a friend of mine

was an accompanist at the Philadelphia Gay Men's Chorus,

and the director had said he was gonna be leaving.

So he said, "Oh, you want to join?

Do you want to audition?" I'm like, "Oh, sure."

Then I'm like -- I added something to my schedule.

And I got the job, and actually, I got the job the week

before rehearsal started that year.

So it was a little bit chaotic getting started, but...

And now it's my full-time job.

-Wow. You're also a musician. I mean, you play --

-Yes. I'm an organist and choral director.

So I played the organ at Girard College

and Lutheran Church of the Holy Communion --

Center City, Philadelphia.

-What is the mission? What is the specific mission?

-The mission is really just to spread

our message of acceptance.

And I don't like the word tolerance anymore,

'cause I think that, you know, acceptance and who we are

and be who you are through music,

through the universal language of music and the impact

that it has on our audience really is important,

especially through our outreach program.

-And where is your headquarters?

-At the Lutheran Church of Holy Communion,

we have an office there,

so that's where we are based right now.

That's where we rehearse, as well.

-Right. That's in Center City, Philadelphia.

-Center city. Correct. -Mm-hmm.

But you play some of the biggest venues in Philadelphia.

-We've played at the Kimmel Center,

the Perelman Theater.

We performed at Suzanne Roberts, where we're residents right now.

We performed at the Prince Theater.

We performed at the Academy of Music.

So been in a lot of places in Philadelphia.

-♪ Come on, Eileen ♪

♪ Oh, I swear (what he means) ♪

♪ At this moment, you mean everything ♪

-That must be an amazing feeling.

-It's an overwhelming thrill for them to be on--

It's still for me, too.

When I'm on the stage and I turn around

and I look out into the audience,

it's just an amazing feeling.

And, like, even when we go to -- like every four years,

we have a big LGBTQ choral festival.

And this year, it's in Minneapolis in July,

and we're performing at some of the big halls there.

The hall we're performing in holds 5,000 people.

That's gonna be an amazing event, as well.

-But not only the traditional venues.

Also, your outreach program takes you to schools

and universities and other venues, right?

-Yes, and we do an outreach program

where we go out to schools once a month

and perform an outreach concert about 30 to 45 minutes.

And we do do a question-and-answer

with the students after that,

which is -- that's always enlightening.

It's a really great time to get to know each other.

And then, also, we have a step program,

which is a student-ticket program

where we give students free tickets

to all of our concerts.

And that goes all the way through college, as well.

-Now, what is the music that you sing?

What genres do you cover?

-We sing everything from, you know, Bach to Lady Gaga.

[ Both laugh ] So every, you know --

This concert we're doing right now, @QueerZ --

it's a brand-new commission that we commissioned

with 10 other choruses, including San Francisco.

And we're doing the premiere here in Philadelphia

while they're doing theirs in San Francisco.

And it's all about the queer experience of today's youth.

And then for two months, we're doing a Vegas show.

So the first half is all Vegas, everything from, like,

Elvis Presley to Celine Dion and everything in between.

And then the second half, we're actually partnering up

with the Philadelphia School of Circus Arts,

and we're doing Cirque de So-Gay is what I'm calling it.

[ Laughs ]

And we're gonna have aerialists, silks, jugglers,

and then we're all doing music from the circus world.

We have a choreographer who works with our group of dancers,

and, also, the chorus does some choral-ography,

we call it, that -- they work with that, as well.

-And I take it that most of what you do,

whether it's from popular music to classical music,

a lot of it is very upbeat, very uplifting.

Is that right? -Oh, definitely.

The message is always uplifting and hopeful and positive.

We try to make sure everything's really positive

'cause the world's tough out there,

and, you know, it's nice to have the music

sending a positive message and enlightening the community.

-How do people respond when you do your concerts?

-Well, they seem to love them.

They always say, "Oh, that's the best one we've ever had."

I'm like, "Oh, you're making a high bar for me

for the next one," but I'm like, it keeps going up,

which is great, but the audience really loves it.

Again, the students -- the response from the students.

When you see these kids --

especially when we're talking about specific LGBTQ issues,

and you see these kids in the front row,

which we did at North Penn High School in October,

and these kids in the front were crying, holding hands,

each other's hands, while we're singing this.

And then them coming up to us afterward

and saying how much it changed their life

in front of their school assemblies, you know,

and that was really shocking.

You know, it gave them the support or the strength

that they needed.

You know, I wish I had a gay chorus come to sing

when I was in high school.

My life would have maybe, you know, had a better

transition into, you know, my adulthood.


-But to see the impact on, also, the singers --

when the singers see what impact we're having

'cause, again, we go to our rehearsals,

we go to the concerts,

and it's all fun and, you know, dancing and fun and singing.

But then when you see the impact

and it just makes it all worthwhile.

-What would be -- in your memory,

what are the most memorable performances

-From a professional standpoint,

the first concert we did at the Kimmel Center

'cause that -- you know, we made it to the big time there.

-That's the big time. -And it was wonderful.

And we're hoping to be back there for our 40th anniversary

because it just raises the level of where we were.

From a personal standpoint,

we did a concert called "When I Knew."

And it focused on all music and stories --

chorus-member stories about when you knew you were different,

not necessarily gay or bi or trans, but just different.

And it just really hit home to a lot of people

because everybody realizes we're all the same.

We all have differences.

We all deal with a lot of the same issues.

And to be there to support each other is really great.

-Now, the chorus also has accompaniment, right?


So, we have a collaborative accompanist

who's a regularly salaried person, of course,

but then we do anywhere from

a 6- to 12-, 14-piece band/orchestra

for all the concerts.

-And you have a couple CDs?

-We have few CDs, a holiday CD,

and then we did one for our 25th anniversary

and then then one from long before that.

-And so, what's coming up?

-We have the @QueerZ

at Lutheran Church of the Holy Communion

and then the circus in Vegas.

The concert will be at the Suzanne Roberts Theater

and they can check us out at

for tickets and all that information.

-Wow. So it just keeps on going.

-Keeps on going. -You keep singing.

-And this year, we're going into July

'cause the festival's not till July,

so this is a little bit of an extension for the year,

and then we start back up at the end of August.

-Right. Well, you know what? Joe, keep up the good work.

Keep singing. -Thank you.

-Keep making Philadelphia proud...

-Thank you very much.

-...and bringing people together.

-Appreciate it. -My pleasure.

Joseph Buches, the artistic director of the

Philadelphia Gay Men's Chorus,

a group that gives voice to those longing to be heard.


How many female mechanics do you know?

If you said none, you're not alone.

Well, my next guest is determined to change

that perception, as the founder of Girls Auto Clinic

in Upper Darby, PA.

Even with her engineering degree from Lehigh University,

she felt intimidated by mechanics and car repairs

whenever she took her vehicle to the shop,

but she decided she was gonna change all that

by learning automotive technology and repair.

She was also determined to turn the industry around.

As an entrepreneur and a person who believed that auto repair

needed a woman's touch, I'm revved to have her on the show.

Welcome, Patrice Banks, to the counter!

-Thank you for having me. -Vroom!

-[ Laughs ] Yes. -Just to make you feel good.

[ Laughs ] -I love that intro!

I think that's one of the best ones I've ever gotten.

-Oh, is that one of the best ones? Well, I hope so.

-I was beaming the whole time you were reading it.

-Really? -Yeah.

-Well, first of all, I appreciate you

coming on the show because I know people

are seeking you on their various shows.

But we're glad to have you here at the counter.

-It's so cool. This is such a great show.

I love this place. -Well, thank you.

So, first of all, describe the Girls Auto Clinic.

I mean, how many bays are we talking about?

How many mechanics or technicians,

I guess we should call them today?

-Yeah. So, Girls Auto Clinic --

really, I describe it as a female-empowerment company.


And we offer automotive buying and repair resources,

services, and products to women by women, created by women,

right, and facilitated by women.

And so, some of the things that we offer

is the Girls Auto Clinic Repair Center.

That's in Upper Darby.

It's a full-service auto repair.

We've got female mechanics, right? We cater to women.

A beautiful lounge for women.

And the cherry on top is there's a nail salon there...

-[ Laughs ] get your nails done

while you're waiting for your car.

And it was really about changing the experience women have

when they bring their car in.

And so it was about, "How can I create a space

not only where I can empower women to work in this industry,

right, but a space for women

that they'll look forward to bringing in their car?"

We also do a lot of education and teaching women

how to be what I call she-canics,

which is a car-savvy lady.

-That's your own term, isn't it? -Yes, it is.

-You've coined that.

Well, I used to call myself an auto airhead.

-[ Laughs ] -Right?

-I didn't know anything about my car.

I felt taken advantage of, right, that I needed a guy,

you know, to call my brother, my grandfather to come help me.

And it wasn't a very empowering position to be in,

especially as a woman who thought she was empowered.

I was an engineer.

So I was looking for ways to educate myself.

And when I went back to school to learn how to work on cars,

I couldn't believe

that the knowledge was actually pretty simple.

It was just how people are delivering it.

So I couldn't wait to share it with women

and say, "Ladies, here's what you really need to know.

It's not that complicated."

So whether you're coming to a repair center or not,

you always feel in control,

like you have the ownership of the car.

And ultimately, to feel good about every choice they make

with their car, right?

This is our hard-earned money. We should feel confident.

"Yes, my car needs this." Right?

"Yes, I believe it costs this much."

"And yes, I believe that there's gonna be a benefit

for paying to do this in the long-term."

And that's our goal, really, is about how they feel

when they leave the shop.

-Do you have male customers? -Absolutely.

So, I tell people we love men.

And they need these services, too.

About 25% of our customers are men.

They're not afraid of something like this, right?

In fact, they're inspired by it, as well.

They bring their daughters and their sons, right?

And so they're getting to see

what a woman mechanic or female mechanic looks like.

That's what's great about our customer base,

is they believe in us and what we're doing and our mission.

It's not really fixing your car, right?

It's empowering people.

-Right. So, I'm thinking one of the biggest challenges,

since this is a whole paradigm shift...

-Yeah. finding female techs.

-Yes. So, that is a challenge for us.

And what I've found is that there are women out there

that want to be techs, that have worked on cars,

that have been in the industry for a little bit.

But often, just like any woman in a male-dominated field,

their success rate, right,

of staying in that field isn't very high.

They often drop out.

They don't have the support they need or the mentors,

or they face some type of discrimination.

And that was the case.

When we started, I had four girls,

and they all have stories like that.

None of them were working on cars when I found them.

They all wanted to.

They were all looking for an opportunity like this.

And so one of the problems

that we're having in general in society today

is there is a shortage of automotive technicians

and just kids in the trade field in general, right?

We're pushing everyone to four-year colleges.

They weren't really valuing some of these trades.

To me, I'm thinking, right, that this is a problem

that we have in general in the automotive industry,

and it's probably even harder to find women.

But problems and challenges, to me,

are actually opportunities to solve a problem, to help fix it.

So how can we use women to fill these gaps?

Women are the number-one customer

in the automotive industry by far.

I'm not sure if you know that, Grover, or if people know that.

-I didn't know that. -I didn't know that, either.

We influence up to 95% of the car-buying decisions.

-Right. So this is the biggest chunk of the market.

-Right. Auto repair is, you know, number one -- women.

We spend $200 billion a year buying and repairing our cars.

And there's more women drivers now than men

across all age groups.

I know that scares some guys, right?

Like, there's more women on the road.

But, you know, the future is female, like they said.

And so if that is the case

and that's where it seems like society is heading,

I think it's important that we have representation of women

in all of these spaces.

-It's just a great idea

to want to educate your customers.

-Yeah, and it really started out with me just looking for

that type of service or product, and I couldn't find it.

And so that's when I was like,

"I'm gonna to go back to school," right?

"This isn't being offered, and I think it's needed

in my life and in millions of women's lives."

We've got the repair centers.

We've got a ton of online resources for women.

They can call and ask.

They can reach out to us

and ask us questions about their car.

YouTube videos and things.

Car-care workshops to teach you, like, what you can touch

and what you can't touch, right?

How do you pop your hood?

if you don't know, right, we're gonna teach you.

It's just blown up since I put it out there.

Hey, I'm gonna start doing workshops.

I'm gonna write a car-care book.

Right? I gave a TED talk about my goals

of how I plan on disrupting the automotive industry.

-I went back to school for automotive technology

and started creating a vision for a company that educates

and empowers women through their cars.

-Now it's like, "What's next for Girls Auto Clinic?

Are you taking over, you know,

the automotive world or franchising?"

-Were you handy as a child?

I mean, you're an engineer, so you must have been able to,

like, figure out how to put Part A together with Part B.

-I was always curious, as a child, of how things worked

and, ultimately, of why things break

and how you get them to mend again.

I grew up with a single-parent home. Right?

We were poor, and I was first generation

to graduate from high school and go to college.

So there was a lot of chaos at home, and I was always

trying to figure things out and fix it and put it together.

-In Philly? -Phoenixville, actually...

-Phoenixville, okay, just outside of Philadelphia. where I was born and raised, yeah.

So I just always liked to solve problems.

So ultimately, that led to my career as an engineer,

which is related to automotive technology.

I like solving problems with my mind,

so the diagnosing part is really fun for me.

-What's the one thing most people would have

the ability to, you know, do, but they've never been taught?

-So, there's, like, kind of two things here

because there's the most important decision

that you can make with your car

and the most important thing that you can do with your car.

So when I talk to women, the most important decision

that you'll make with your car is the type of car you buy.

And often, we think the type of car we buy is like,

"Does it fit my style?

Can I fit my kids in it if I have kids in the car seat?"

We don't think about things like,

"What do I want to use the car for?

How long I want to keep it?

What am I gonna do when I get rid of it?

Do I drive it, like, very aggressive,

or am I a very conscientious driver?"

These factors need to be determined into the type of car

that you buy because what happens is you'll buy a car

that doesn't fit your habits and your lifestyle,

and then you're gonna have buyer's remorse

because you can't afford to fix it

or it's gonna have a ton of problems breaking down.

And it doesn't fit your lifestyle.

And then the most important thing that you can do

for your car is to get your oil changed when it's due.

And so if it says 5,000 miles between oil changes,

that's 4,999, right?

That's not 5,601.

You're taking your car to what I call your PCT,

your primary care technician, and you're gonna make sure

that it's in good health.

They're gonna tell you, "Hey, you're gonna need tires

in the next three months, so make sure you save up."

Or, "Your next oil change, you're gonna need this."

They're not gonna beat you over the head if you have

your primary care mechanic or technician.

So that's why it's important.

Don't be afraid to go in to get these checkups.

It's going to help the longevity of your car,

help you take care of it better, help you love it more

so it loves you back more.

And then you're less likely to make mistakes with the car,

to be up-sold on things you don't need.

And that's what we teach them in our workshops.

We teach that in the book.

-And your book, again, is called?

-It's called "Girls Auto Clinic Glove Box Guide"

and the whole purpose -- it's not like leave it on the shelf.

It's put it in your glove box, pull it out, reference it.

It's a guide. It's gonna teach you.

"What are the most important things I need to know

so I know I'm making the right choice?"

And then when they have this knowledge,

they can't wait to share it with other people.

"Oh, I can't wait to tell my husband." That's right.

"Oh, I don't need to warm my car up

in the morning on a cold day?

I don't get" -- you know.

"They're making me sit out there in the cold?"

They get so excited to learn and share with other people,

which is the goal.

-Well, that is great advice. -Yeah.

And with that advice, it may prevent you

from having big repair bills later on down the line.


-So, Patrice, I want to thank you so much

for coming to the counter. -Thank you for having me.

It was a lot of fun. -Same here.

Patrice Banks, a mover and shaker

who believes that a woman can be as handy as any handyman

when it comes to automotive technology.


Are you disorganized,

overwhelmed by a growing feeling of chaos in your home or office?

Well, my next guest has come to the rescue

with her series of books, "Sort and Succeed."

Please welcome certified professional organizer,

Darla DeMorrow.

-Thank you so much for having me on.

-Welcome the counter.

You're an organizer, a certified professional organizer.

-Yes. People may not know,

and that's part of the reason why I'm on the show today,

is that they can get help organizing.

I am a member of the National Association

of Productivity and Organizing Professionals.

It's a mouthful, but NAPO exists nationwide

and actually worldwide to help people get and stay organized.

-So, you always talk about helping people

be organized versus getting organized.

-Yes. -And there's a difference?

-Yeah. We want to do both, actually.

In my company, HeartWork Organizing,

it's based in Wayne, Pennsylvania,

we actually come alongside individuals,

homeowners, and business owners and help them get organized.

Usually, they're calling me

because they need to dig themselves out of some crisis.

Some of us don't have the organizing gene

or, you know, whatever skill you need to be organized.

And then there are the things that happen to all of us.

We have big life transitions, and they're not all bad.

You know, we could have babies come into our lives

that throws our life upside down,

job changes, moves, even in the same neighborhood.

Moving from one house to another is a big deal.

And then there's, you know, death and losses of all sorts.

divorce, job loss.

Those things can really throw you for a loop

and screw up, you know, the organization

that you already have on hand.

-Right, because now, all of a sudden,

you have a big influx of stuff.

-Could be stuff.

Could be, "I can't get my thoughts together anymore."

So, yes, very often we're working with people

to help them with their stuff,

because if you're sitting in the midst of chaos,

it's hard to get your thoughts organized.

-Well, I read your first book, and I like the idea

that the number-one thing you do is to calm people down

because they're a little upset about being overwhelmed.

-Yes. A lot of people call me very frustrated and embarrassed.

And the first thing I want them to know,

and I'm so glad you're having me on this show,

to let people know that to reach out for help

is not a moral failing.

You know, you haven't done something wrong.

And it's completely okay to reach out

and get help from a professional

and myself, my team, my colleagues,

we don't come with any judgment.

In fact, we're coming with a really strange paradigm.

We are puzzle solvers.

So an individual may have what they feel is a mess.

We're looking at it as, "How can we solve this puzzle?

How can we make this better?"

-Another thing I like about your book,

you talk about brain chemistry and that not everyone,

just by virtue of their brain chemistry,

is meant to be a great organizer.

-Right. Well, and I talk about it as

everybody has some brilliance that they bring with them.

We're all put on this earth for some reason.

And yours may not be organizing. That's okay.

But I am really into neuroscience

and understanding what makes us tick.

One of the people that I follow is Richard Thaler.

And a couple of years ago,

he actually won the Nobel Prize in economics,

and he won it for work on, essentially,

what turns out to be why we do the crazy things that we do.


-And one of the studies that he has written extensively about

is why we latch on to things

and why we keep them for longer than, maybe, we need to.

It's called the endowment effect.

His study actually talked about coffee cups,

so it's funny that you have one in your hand.

He went into a classroom, gave half the class coffee cups,

gave the other class -- half the class no coffee cups.

And within as little as five minutes,

people were getting attached to these coffee cups.

And then he could do experiments on who was willing to buy,

who was willing to sell, and who was really getting attached

to that coffee cup.

We do the same thing with all sorts of things at home,

including coffee cups.

And you might think, "But I might need it someday."

-I always say, you know,

"As soon as I get rid of this, I'm gonna need it."


But, you know, there are cases where that does happen.

The exception doesn't always prove the rule.

The bottom line for me is

if your home isn't making you happy

or if you can't find what you need

or if you run a business

and you can't respond to your clients

in a timely manner to be able to be successful,

then, probably, a professional organizer can help you.

-And you talk about five simple steps.

And the first one is writing out your goal.

-Yes. "Sort and Succeed" is an acronym.

And it stands for -- the "S" is to start.

But when you get started, it's very easily --

it's very easy to get distracted.

By writing down what you're working on that day,

you can keep yourself grounded in that organizing project,

and organizing projects

should not take all day or all week --

between 15 minutes and 3 or 4 hours at most.

A 15-minute organizing project is still an organizing project,

and you can get a lot done in that amount of time.

You can organize or clear out a bathroom drawer,

a junk drawer, clear off the top of your desk,

all sorts of little organizing projects

that can get you to your bigger goal.

Your second step in the "Sort and Succeed" process

is organizing things into groups.

And we're not worried about throwing things out just yet.

We're worried about just gathering like things together.

So put the candles with the candles.

Put the pens with the pens. Put the books with the books.

-And you do say to start near the doorway, right?

Is that right? -Yes.

And you work your way around the room, right.

There's no real magic in that,

except that by either working clockwise

or counterclockwise, it doesn't matter,

you create a path of organization behind you

instead of, you know, what you've always told your kids --

"You're leaving a path of chaos behind you."

Then the next step, which is step 3, is reduce, release,

and reset by having all of the like things together.

Then you can decide on the merits of one over the other.

And I love step 3 because that starts to be where you reset

and the resetting is where you get another jolt of energy.

Now, the fourth step is tweaking.

And so, we like to make sure that the tweaking happens

so that an initial organizing layout or plan can be tweaked.

And that's for your brain chemistry,

how much time you're going to have to organize,

who in your family is also going to need

to help keep you organized.

That's where the tweaking happens,

and that's also where we go buy new supplies.

You notice up till now in the process,

nobody's been to the store. [ Laughs ]

So you don't start organizing by going and buying things.

And then the last step, which is super important,

is to succeed and celebrate that success.

And that again goes back to the brain chemistry

because you're teaching your brain to love organizing --

maybe not as much as I do, but...

-[ Laughs ]'ll start.

-I see you brought some files

that, you know, betokens organization.

Yeah. So, this is a tickler file.

And I go through this in the book.

And look, this is the quickest before-and-after

you're ever gonna see.

This is a perfectly serviceable tickler file.

But look, we're gonna tweak it and make it pretty.


-So, this is 12 files, January through December.

And the idea is that when you come across important paper,

instead of throwing it on your kitchen counter,

or your dining-room table, or in your purse,

or in your car somewhere, you put it in the month

where you know you're gonna need that piece of paper again.

This really is a way for that important paper

to come back to you exactly when you need it again.

-And that's the whole purpose of "Sort and Succeed."


-Folks should take advantage of your books

'cause they can figure out some of this stuff on their own

through what you provide in them.

-Yeah, there's three books.

There's "Organizing Your Home with Sort and Succeed,"

"Organizing Your Kitchen," and the newest one,

"The Upbeat, Organized Home Office."

-There you go.

Well, that should take care of everyone's

decluttering needs.

Thanks so much for coming to the counter.

-Thank you.

Darla DeMorrow, an author whose five simple steps

can help you rise above the chaos of clutter and disarray.


Well, that's all for this episode.

I'd like to thank my guests, the artistic director of the

Philadelphia Gay Men's Chorus, Joseph Buches...

-We sing everything from Bach to Lady Gaga.

-...founder of Girls Auto Clinic,

Patrice Banks...

-That's what's great about our customer base

is they believe in us and what we're doing and our mission.

-...and the professional organizer

who can help you sort and succeed, Darla DeMorrow.

-Working clockwise,

you create a path of organization behind you.

-And thank you for checking out

tonight's episode of "Counter Culture."

Don't forget to tune in next week

because you never know who you'll meet at the counter.




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