
Author Imprint

Author Jason Reynolds Discusses "Ghost"
Author Jason Reynolds sat down with Lisa Lucas at the National Book Foundation Conference: Why Reading Matters. They discussed his many projects, including his four-part Track series and his upcoming Miles Morales Spider-Man novel. He talks about the electricity he feels when a story clicks and why we need inclusive storytelling in every medium for every age group.
TRANSCRIPT
>> Hi. I'm Lisa Lucas.
I am the host of
"Author Imprint," and today I'm
going to be speaking with
Jason Reynolds, who has been
here today at the
Why Reading Matters Conference
hosted by the
National Book Foundation,
where I am the
Executive Director.
Jason, thank you so much for
joining me today.
>> Thank you for having me.
♪♪
>> Today we talked a little bit
about why reading matters.
>> Yeah.
>> And you had some interesting
thoughts on why it does matter.
I didn't expect you to start
with why reading didn't matter
to you as a young person.
>> I know you didn't
expect that.
[ Laughter ]
>> But why do you think it's
important to frame that
conversation that way for
people?
When you're trying to explain
why reading matters to someone,
why do you start
with the negative?
>> Because I think that,
especially in a crowd
like this crowd, right?
Like, for this crowd, which is a
crowd where everyone is sort of
working in books in some
capacity, right?
We're already the readers,
right?
We're the readers already.
And so, for me, I think
sometimes we can forget that
there are a lot of young people,
specifically, who are totally
disconnected from the power of
books.
And the reason why isn't --
Like, the reasoning behind that
isn't their fault.
>> Mm-hmm.
>> It's not their fault that
they're disconnected.
It's on us. It's up to us
to figure that out.
And so I want to make sure that
I always drive home the point
that, like, yes, today I am this
person.
But my entire childhood I was
disconnected from the power of
books, and the reason why I was
disconnected is because there
were no adults in my life to get
a little creative.
>> Mm-hmm. Yeah.
>> There was no one to say,
"Well, what are you looking for?
What do you need?
What do we..."
It just was a different time.
>> Yeah.
I think about that a lot, too --
the parents.
You know, we talk all the time
about inspiring young people to
read and building this new
audience, but, like, how do you
talk to the parents?
Somebody who's spent 30 years,
40 years not reading at all,
how do you actually get them
involved in the act of reading?
Because it's like, if you're a
kid and your parents don't care,
and they don't think it's
worthwhile, even if there is
something for you --
which, like, authors like
yourself.
>> Right.
>> Lots of people are starting
to provide those options.
>> Yeah.
>> How do you then get the
parent to value the books in the
home, and books in their own
life?
>> I think therein lies the rub,
right?
Like, I don't know if I have the
answer for it.
I think that is where...
It's like anything else.
Whether we're talking about the
technological gap, whether we're
talking about -- the gaps are
the gaps, and our job is to
figure out how to close it.
I'm not exactly sure I have the
answer, but I do know that --
I remember in 1999, 2000, 2001,
I was working in a bookstore
in D.C.
No. 2003, 2004,
'cause that was college.
I'm working at a bookstore in
D.C.
This, as I'm sure you remember,
was the boom of the
street novel.
>> Right.
>> Right? They were everywhere.
Of course, we feel how we feel.
Like them, hate them,
whatever, whatever, whatever.
They flooded the market.
And in this bookstore, which was
a Black bookstore, we carried
65% of this kind of novel.
And what I was seeing was tons
of adults rushing into the
bookstore to read this novel.
Now, do I think these are
"good" books or well-written
books?
Not necessarily.
But there's something to be
learned.
>> Oh, yeah.
>> Right? The same thing that
they were finding in those
novels is the same thing that I
was finding in Tupac.
There's something there,
and if we could figure out how
to harness that thing, and
figure out how to place it other
places and draw the connection
that way, I think that we can
start to bridge the gap
a little bit.
But that takes time and effort
and creativity.
>> Yeah.
Do you talk to parents ever?
>> All the time.
>> Yeah. And what do
they often say?
Are they thankful for the work?
Are they reading it themselves?
>> That's what I was gonna say.
A lot of times, they're reading
the books, too.
And so what will happen is a kid
will say -- like a lady who was
just here.
She was like, "You know, my
daughter met you in some school.
She read your book, and then
came home and said, 'Mom, you
have to read this.'"
And in that moment, there's a
bridging of the gap.
And I think it's happened even
with reluctant adult readers.
>> Mm-hmm.
>> Because, one...
And people tend to be a bit
pretentious about the way we
talk about these things.
But one, there's something a
little less...
There's something disarming
about reading books for
young people...
>> Mm-hmm.
>> ...especially for adults
who are reluctant readers,
and adults who may struggle
with literacy.
There's something disarming
still -- that doesn't make -- we
shouldn't look at them as
less than.
We shouldn't look at those
adults who are "reading down"
as less than, either, because
there is something to be gained.
Whether it be a relationship
with your child, whether it be a
relationship with literature and
letters and storytelling
and literacy --
All of those things matter.
>> Mm-hmm.
And I think there's a way to
frame it to encourage parents.
You should be reading what your
kids are reading.
>> You should.
>> You should be able
to have that discussion.
And I think that takes a little
bit of the, like, stink of
"reading down."
>> Exactly. Exactly.
>> Which it isn't, right?
But, you know, back to your own
book -- "Ghost" was the last one
that I read, and I have three
new books of yours on my stack
to read, which are all coming
out soon, which is exciting.
But I remember there was one
moment where a little kid was
eating sunflower seeds.
>> Yeah.
>> And the recognition, the
spark of recognition of my own
youth and, like, hanging out,
you know, in the summertime
eating sunflower seeds with
kids.
Which is such a, like,
Black reference.
>> Very Black.
>> Which is such a -- like,
something that I don't talk
about every day or think about,
but I certainly have never seen
it in a book.
>> Yeah.
>> This simple thing, eating
sunflower seeds and spitting
them out, you know.
>> Yeah.
>> And, like, figuring out how
to, like, break them open, lick
the salt off, get the seed out.
And I think that there's so much
value -- and this is maybe less
of a question and more of a
statement about being able to
find that recognition
in your books.
But I think that --
>> There's something to the
sunflower seeds, though.
>> Yeah.
>> Like, I also wrote --
So, the sunflower seeds in
"Ghost," it's interesting,
because I wanted it to be this
really familiar Black reference
about this snack food that we
all eat sort of passively, this
thing that we all do.
It's the same where my
grandfather would eat peanuts.
Like, that was his sort of form
of this --
It's like a continuous snack.
You're just kind of eating them
all day, and you're
spitting them out.
But what I also wanted to do
with the sunflower seed was use
it as a motif.
The truth is that the sunflower
seeds were also reference to the
adults in his life.
You have choices when it comes
to how we deal with young
people.
You can chew them up...
>> Mm-hmm.
>> ...you can lick the salt.
Or you can take your time
to crack the shell.
That is literally what...
>> Yeah.
>> I mean, that's what "Ghost"
is about, you know?
Sweet, sweet "Ghost." Ohhh.
It's like my baby.
>> That book is a really, really
incredible book.
>> Thank you.
>> And I'm so excited that
"Patina" is coming out soon, the
trilogy.
>> "Patina"!
>> So, where do you think the
trilogy will go and, like, can
you tell us a little bit --
>> It's four. It's four.
>> Four? I'm sorry, the quartet.
>> The quartet.
>> Can you tell me a little bit
about "Ghost," and then about
what you want to do with the
whole series?
>> So, "Ghost," obviously, is
about this kid, Castle Crenshaw,
who experiences a bit of
trauma -- well, not a bit.
He experienced some serious
trauma at the beginning of his
life.
And in that trauma, he naturally
runs from the thing that is
threatening him.
>> Mm-hmm.
>> And because of that running,
he realizes that he can run.
But he doesn't think
about it that way.
He doesn't think about it
as a sport.
He thinks about it as survival.
And so when he sees these kids
on a track practicing --
"practicing" running,
he's sort of like, "Why would
you ever have to practice
something that I just
know how to do?"
And so he joins this track team
and sort of finds a new family,
and finds new mentorship, finds
new friends, and this is his
whole thing.
Now, as the story continues, we
get to "Patina," we get to
"Sunny," we get to "Lu."
These are all kids who are
dealing with their own form of
running.
>> Mm-hmm.
>> So, in his story, he was
running from a thing.
And "Patina," it's all about
the feeling that you have to run
your whole family.
>> Mm-hmm.
>> Because all the girls I grew
up with -- all the girls.
And I grew up in a Black
neighborhood.
All of the girls in my
neighborhood, including my own
sister and my cousins,
they weren't allowed
to be young.
>> Right.
>> Boys could be boys forever.
>> Right.
>> Girls were --
>> Still can, maybe.
>> And still can, unfortunately.
And unfortunately still can.
Girls back then, the girls in my
neighborhood were expected to
uphold certain levels of
responsibilities at
10, 11 years.
Like, "I got to go in the house
and cook so-and-so's dinner."
At 10?
>> [ Chuckles ]
>> It's like, "I can't stay out
'cause I got to go.
My mom said I got to do my
little sister's hair, so I got
to go in the house."
That's what it was.
And so in Patina's story, you're
getting a young lady who feels
like she has to carry the weight
of the world on her shoulder,
and has been raised that way,
and because of that has become
blind to the fact that she does
have support systems.
She's just not used to having
support systems.
>> I'm so excited to read it.
So, you're gonna go through...
>> Each one.
>> ...each one of the kids...
>> As the season progresses.
>> Mm-hmm.
>> And the season is sort of --
The macro level of the season is
progressing, and so you're
seeing all these races and
everything.
At different practice, things
are happening.
And, like, Patina's got, like,
wild practice stuff going on.
You know, then you get, like,
Sunny.
Sunny comes from money.
Sunny doesn't go to school.
He's homeschooled.
>> Mm-hmm.
>> And Sunny doesn't want
to be a runner.
>> Right.
>> Right, you're gonna deal with
his sort of thing.
And then Lu, Lu's story would be
about basically this concept
that track isn't about running
against other people.
All you're really running
against is you.
You're trying to beat your time.
It doesn't matter who's
around you.
You're only running for
yourself, and "Lu" is sort of
getting at that, and figuring
out self-awareness and
self-acceptance,
being an albino kid.
>> Well, that sounds good enough
in and of itself, but you also
have two other books coming out
this year.
>> Yes. Whoo!
>> You have the Miles Morales
book, which is "Spider-Man."
>> Yeah.
>> I mean, which is pretty epic,
actually.
>> [ Laughs ] Yeah.
>> You know, I mean, I remember
when the comic book came out,
and it was Miles Morales,
and it was like,
"Wait, wait. There's a..."
>> "He's brown."
>> "There's a brown Spider-Man."
But now there's actually
like a book.
>> There's a novel.
>> A novel.
>> And it is going to
cause a lot of problems.
>> Problems? Why problems?
>> Well, look, there's gonna be
some love, there's gonna be some
feathers ruffled.
>> But isn't the whole thing
about these universes is that
they shift and change, and
there's nothing actually
that's wrong?
>> You know what,
that is the truth.
>> Right.
>> Right? That makes
a lot of sense, Lisa.
>> Mm-hmm.
>> Unfortunately...
>> Right.
>> ...there are a lot of people
who aren't very comfortable
with change.
>> Right.
>> And my story...
Shout-out to Disney and
shout-out to Marvel because they
gave me free reign.
They let me do
what I wanted to do.
And so Miles is very brown
culturally.
And before that, they sort of
were able to sort of, "Oh, we're
gonna paint his face brown, and
he's gonna be sort of he comes
from a certain family --
"family" -- but we're not gonna
give him too much texture."
>> Mm-hmm.
>> And that ain't really my
thing, right?
>> Right.
>> So for me, it was like,
"No, we're gonna really layer on
the texture."
>> [ Chuckles ] Right.
>> And his mom,
who is Puerto Rican,
there's gonna be --
I mean, the first page, I think
they're eating, like...
I thinkpasteles andchicharrón.
>> Right. Perfect.
>> You know, and, like,
his father is Black,
and is very Black,
and they're dealing with --
He's Black Dad, right?
Like, I mean, he's
really Black Dad.
And his neighborhood --
He's in Bed-Stuy.
Peter Parker was in
Queens, right?
>> Right.
>> Miles is in Bed-Stuy.
He's in Brooklyn.
It is very Brooklyn.
There's barber-shop scenes.
And there's questions.
The questions of,
"How can I be a superhero
without the privilege?"
>> Right.
>> If I were to tell my mother
that I had to save the world,
my mother would say,
"How you gonna save the world
before you save this family?"
>> Right.
>> "Before you save this block?
The community? The city?"
Like, "How you gonna
save the world?"
>> Right. It's a privilege to be
able to, like, focus on the
whole world's problems.
>> "I need you to get good
grades in school, 'cause you got
to get to college, kid.
College is your ticket out.
You need to go to school.
So you can't be out there saving
the world, 'cause when you gonna
have time to do your homework?"
>> Right. [ Laughs ]
>> Like, that's my mom, right?
And that's my Miles' --
like, that's where Miles
is coming from.
>> Mm-hmm.
>> And he's dealing with
inferiority complex, he's
dealing with, like, "Am I
allowed to be Spider-Man?"
>> Yeah.
>> "Is it okay for me
to do this?"
>> Right.
>> Right? Like all of those...
>> 'Cause nobody said,
"Obviously you're Spider-Man.
Maybe you're a secret
superhero."
>> Exactly. Exactly.
>> The messaging is not that,
like, maybe you might actually
be super special.
It's like, "You're not
special at all."
>> "You're not special at all."
And then the bigger picture, on
top of all of those things,
which is the thing that I'm most
excited about, but also the
thing that's gonna get me in a
little bit of --
Is that I'm also telling the
school-to-prison pipeline story.
>> Mm-hmm. Yeah.
>> Using Spider-Man.
And...
>> Good trouble, though.
>> It's good trouble.
Yeah, it's good trouble.
I mean, it's something --
Look, you get your opportunity,
you shoot your shot.
And I had an opportunity to tell
a story that meant the world to
me, and that means the world to
me, and it's something that's
affecting so many of us, and
we've yet to figure out how to
truly talk about it.
>> Yeah.
>> So I'm like, "Well, we'll
have Spider-Man talk about it."
>> And were a comic reader
growing up?
>> I wasn't. My siblings were.
>> Okay.
>> I wasn't as much.
I was a cartoon kid.
So I watched --
>> Do you read them now?
>> Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I'm that guy.
And Marvel's doing crazy stuff.
Like, not just with Miles.
I mean, like, Kamala Khan and,
like...
I mean, there's some really
interesting things happening.
I mean, look, shout-out to the
Black Panther.
I mean, what Te-Nehisi did...
>> Unbelievable.
>> It's unbelievable.
>> Roxane Gay writing
"World of Wakanda."
>> Roxane Gay.
I mean, I always imagine...
Like, imagine what it would've
been like if James Baldwin was
still around, and he was like,
"Yo, I'm getting ready to write
the new version of Superman."
>> [ Laughs ] It's unreal.
>> Like, really...
>> When I think about what I had
access to --
I mean, 'cause I was talking to
somebody, and they were like,
"What'd you read when you
were a kid?"
And I was like,
"Sweet Valley High."
>> Right.
>> I mean, I just --
And I was doing an article for
New York Magazine, and they
were asking me, like, "What were
the measures of being cool when
you were a kid?"
And I was like, "Man,
they were all things
that weren't like me."
You know, when it was
pop-cultural stuff.
It was like, you know, the best
thing I had was, like, Cherie
from "Punky Brewster."
>> Yeah. That's so crazy.
>> You know, and it was like,
"Cherie's onscreen for 2
minutes!" in the 30 minutes
of the show.
>> Yeah.
>> You know, so, yeah, I had
something, but it's --
I cannot imagine what it would
have been like for both of us to
grow up with all of the stuff
that we have now, because it is
changing.
>> It's changing.
>> There is access, actually.
And I think we have to figure
out how to get the work to
people.
>> Yeah.
>> But it's starting to shift.
>> It is.
>> You've done a lot
of that work.
>> I'm super grateful.
I am super grateful.
>> So, I tell this story all the
time now, but when I first met
you, we were in a bookstore.
>> Yeah.
>> And you were at the beginning
of your career, really.
You had just published
"When I Was the Greatest."
>> "When I Was the Greatest,"
yeah.
>> I still have that copy.
I think you signed it.
But you were telling me about
all these big dream you had.
You were like,
"I'm gonna do this."
And they weren't even dreams.
These were just your plans.
>> "This is what I'm gonna do."
>> You know, you said, "I'm
gonna do this, and I'm gonna do
that, and I'm gonna publish all
these books, and this is who I'm
writing for, and this is what I
want to say."
>> Yeah.
>> Now, right, like, you feel
like you're at the beginning
of -- you've done all these
things.
You've accomplished those goals
that you had back then, it feels
like to me.
Like, everything is possible.
Everything is assured.
What next?
Like, what comes beyond being
able to knock out those
9 books or 10 books or 15 books?
>> Yeah. You know...
I don't know.
First, I don't know if I ever
feel like it's...
You know how it is.
I mean, I have my insecurities.
I don't know if I feel like I've
done the thing.
I don't know if I feel like I've
accomplished what I set out to
accomplish.
And every day is a day that I
have to fight back the idea that
I'm not good enough, and that
these books aren't good enough,
and that what I'm working on at
the current time, that I'm not
doing enough or saying enough
or...
It's hard for me.
It's hard for me.
I live in that weird sort of...
I mean, I got my stuff.
I got my stuff.
>> It's easy for me on this side
to be like, "That's dumb."
But also, I think that it's
crazy not to feel that, right,
like when it's so visible, and
you know that there's thousands
and tens of thousands, hundreds
of thousands of children that
are actually reading the work
that you're writing, and that
are being defined by it.
I mean, can you imagine being
Judy Blume, right, like...
>> Exactly.
>> ...where every young person
in, like, the whole of a
country, a huge country...
>> You shifted the whole --
You shifted the trajectory of a
generation.
>> Right.
>> And I couldn't imagine.
But it's that sort of constant,
like, "Am I -- is this okay?
Am I me?"
Like, "Is this happening?"
All that kind of stuff.
But I still have...
Yeah, there's nine books at the
end of this year, but there's
like nine more.
>> Yeah.
>> I mean, I've got eight open
contracts.
>> Yep. That's great.
>> You know, and I want to write
adult novels, I want to write
picture books, I want to
write...
Maybe I'll write some kind of
movie thing.
I don't know yet.
But, look, I'm a storyteller.
I just want to tell stories.
I don't care about the medium.
I prefer books.
That's my sort of --
I love books.
>> Right.
>> Even, like, "Long Way Down,"
it's a novel in verse.
How can I fool around with
format?
How can I really play around
with language?
'Cause I also think sometimes we
forget that writing is a
creative art.
It's not just mechanics.
We also -- you get to stretch
out, you get to be creative, try
something --
>> You get to play.
>> Play around.
>> Philip Roth's "The Breast."
>> Exactly.
>> Which is, in many ways, a
failed experiment, but...
>> But an experiment.
>> He got to write a book about
a man that turns into a boob.
>> Exactly.
>> You know, I mean,
it's just...
You know, I think you
should play.
>> Yeah.
>> And you get to not be perfect
all the time, too.
>> Exactly.
>> I think that it's important
to remember that, like, you
don't have to win 100% of the
time.
Although you seem to.
>> [ Laughs ]
>> And so maybe this is not
applicable.
>> No, it is. [ Laughs ]
>> But, you know, the other
thing -- and I get this a lot.
You know, I really care about
what I do.
I really love books.
And I really love bringing
people together with books.
I don't have a passion for
writing them, but I have a
passion for reading them and
for, you know just telling
everybody that I meet that they
should read this book,
giving them an experience or
celebrating a writer that I
love, to make sure that they get
their due.
But you have a similar type of
enthusiasm.
>> Oh, man.
>> And I remember meeting you.
And has it waned at all, or is
it bigger than it was?
Just the writing and the doing.
>> Oh, my God. It's massive.
>> Yeah?
>> You know what, I was talking
to a buddy last night, and we
were discussing this.
'Cause he was like,
"Oh, do you still feel it?"
Like, "Is it still there?"
And the truth is,
is when I hear a story...
>> Mm-hmm.
>> Like my mom's been telling me
her life story lately.
I've been just kind of sucking
everything -- 'cause she's
getting older, and I'm like,
"Just give it to me."
And it makes me crazy.
Like, it...
It gives me
the electricity that I feel
when I hear a story.
But when I read a story, or when
I'm thinking of something,
or when it starts to make sense,
there's nothing on Earth more
intoxicating for me than that,
other than young people.
That's it.
Those are the two things
in my life.
I don't know if I'd be able to
be honestly fulfilled without
stories, whether they're in
books or whether they've been
told to me, but just I need to
be -- probably even more in
books so I can re-read them.
I can kind of go back and...
>> Right. Yeah.
>> And kids.
There's nothing better.
And that's the other thing, is
that for me this is also
about -- because I write for
young people, I love them, and I
care for them and the work
that I do.
I am of service to them.
And they are as much a part of
my process as anything else.
They are always on my mind.
They are always in my heart.
I don't understand how people
don't -- it's hard for me to
even understand how people
don't like them.
>> Where does that come from?
>> I don't know.
>> 'Cause I've devoted most of
my life to working with
children.
I was an educator for many,
many years.
And I don't know -- I mean, I
don't have kids.
And I was a child,
but we all were.
And, you know, it seems like
somehow the most vital,
important thing that one can do
is to make sure that the young
people that are in this world
have the opportunity to grow up
full and whole...
>> That's it.
>> ...and have things.
>> I think that, when you spend
enough time with them,
I think what becomes really
clear is that...
Is basically that you get to see
what you used to be.
>> Mm-hmm.
>> And all you really want for
them is for them to hold on.
Like, everything in life
is going to try to take the
thing that you can see
so clearly in them.
And, for me, it's like I just
want to do everything I can so
they can hang on to it.
Like, I met a fifth-grader one
time, and I said, "How would you
describe your grandma?" right?
And she said, "Oh, my grandma...
It's hard for me to describe
her face, but I can tell you
what her hair look like.
Her hair look like
cotton candy."
And I would've never come up
with that kind of description.
My brain doesn't work that way
anymore.
>> Yeah, they're limber.
>> They're limber.
>> Their minds are limber in a
way that you lose.
>> It's insane.
It is the most incredible
experience.
And being around them...
You know, people think that I'm
doing some, like...
You show up to a school or a
library, or you go to a
classroom or a boys club or
girls club or a prison, and
people are always like, "Man,
thank you for coming and giving
to the young people."
And it's like,
"You just don't get it.
I've come here selfishly."
>> Yeah.
>> I've come here to take."
[ Laughs ]
>> 'Cause you get something from
being with young people, yeah.
It fills you up, too.
>> It fills me up, too. Right.
>> By giving them something, it
just makes you...
>> Listen, one hand
washes the other.
>> Yep.
Do you think that authors make a
mistake in not -- I feel like,
when you say, "Okay, I know this
writer," and it's an adult
writer.
You know, a writer who writes
for an adult audience.
Novelist, whatever.
>> Yeah.
>> And then you say,
"Oh, this person is a YA writer,
or a middle-grade writer."
Do you think that there's the
same value, you know, when we
think about our artists?
Do you think that there's as
much prestige in writing for
children as there is in the
writing for the adult market?
>> No.
>> Why do you think that is?
'Cause I think it's crazy.
>> Oh, it's crazy.
>> The impact you have...
>> It's crazy.
>> I mean, it's like, again,
Judy Blume, Katherine Paterson,
you know, these things that
every single person in the whole
world, it seems like,
knows and has read.
>> Yeah.
I think that there's...
Well, first let me just say that
I think there's a prestige.
I don't know if it's the same
kind of prestige, right, but,
like, I can walk into any
library in America -- I can walk
into any bookstore, any
children's section,
any school...
>> Mm-hmm.
>> ...in this country,
and feel loved.
>> Right.
>> Feel that kind of prestige.
And to me, those are the people
that mean -- kids matter.
It's like, "Oh, the kids" --
The kids are like, "We like it,"
'cause the kids are the ones who
also have the most specific
taste, right?
So for me, there's that. Yeah.
But I don't think,
when it comes to
the world of scholarship, and
the world of sort of capital-L
literature, that we are...
I think we're seen as less than.
I think we're seen less than
simply based on category.
It's just categorical, right?
That doesn't mean...
Look, there's a lot of fluff
in my category.
There's also a lot of
fluff in...
>> There's fluff everywhere.
>> There's fluff everywhere.
But the way that it's sort of
stratified is that, like,
"You all are writing"...
>> Although, to clarify,
fluff is lovely,
and I love all books.
>> Me too. Me too. Me too.
>> [ Laughs ]
All books are good.
>> But there's just this idea
that, like, what we're
writing is...
It's like, "Oh, you're just
writing, like, bubblegum" -- or
it's not as sophisticated.
And I'm like, "You clearly
haven't read any of it."
And I think it's that idea that,
if you're writing for adults,
you're writing sophisticated
work, and if you're writing for
kids, you're not.
It's interesting, 'cause we were
talking about Jesmyn Ward.
And when I was speaking with her
editor recently, the one thing
that she said about her new
book, she was like, "You know,
there's gonna be some
crossover."
And it's one of these times
where it's gonna be crossover
from adult to teen, right, where
it's like there's this --
Because the truth is that line
isn't really there.
>> No.
>> It's not really there.
The other thing I always tell my
adult writing buddies -- whom I
all love very dearly, even
though we sometimes like to --
Well, because I have
a chip on my shoulder.
There's that.
And like to get into these
little -- you know.
But I always tell them, I say,
"You know, I am so proud of and
grateful for the work
that you do."
I really am, 'cause I
read a ton of it.
"But the reason that you have an
audience is because we created
one for you."
>> Yeah. Absolutely.
>> Like, if we don't do our
jobs, there's no one there to
read your books.
Walter created...
Walter Dean Myers created a
massive audience of kids who
grew up to be adults who now
read Colson Whitehead.
>> Mm-hmm.
>> Like, that is the truth.
And we don't want to discuss it
that way, but it's the truth.
And I think we have to start
figuring out how to talk about
it inclusively.
It's like, "Look, we're all
in this thing together.
We're all telling stories.
That's what we all love to do.
Some of us are a little more
masturbatory than others, but we
were all telling stories.
We should stop here before I get
in trouble.
I'm gonna stop that question.
>> No, no. Thank you.
>> But it's true.
That's how I really feel.
>> I mean, to me, it feels like,
right, they are connected
markets.
The youth market and the adult
market, these are one thing.
And to look at that time between
age 12 and age 18,
and to see such a significant
drop, right, and to see such a
loss of interest, it means that
maybe we're not holding hands
tight enough...
>> Exactly.
>> ...between those two areas.
>> That's a good point.
>> And maybe if we did, if we
thought about what that
transition could look like, how
we might move a reader from that
sort of 12-year-old, sort of
really optimistic, really
open-hearted, open-spirited
through the rocky teens, you
know, where we hit puberty, and
we do all these things --
Maybe if we think together about
how to carry a young reader
through those times, maybe the
adult market looks different on
the other side.
>> That's interesting.
I would even like to do --
I mean, all these conferences
and festivals, and very few of
them have panels that are
multi-category, right?
Like, why can't I sit on the
panel with Mitchell Jackson or
Chimamanda and really have like
a discussion?
>> Well, I'm gonna do that.
>> You should do that.
You should do that.
>> I'm gonna really do that.
That is a great idea.
>> You know, so...
>> Yeah. So, great.
Well, thank you so much.
>> Oh, thank you for
your work, Lisa.
>> Thank you for yours.
♪♪
Author Imprint Podcast
- WordsAuthor Imprint: The Podcast — Lisa LucasJune 28, 2018
- WordsAuthor Imprint: The Podcast — Meg WolitzerJune 21, 2018
- WordsAuthor Imprint: The Podcast — Steve BerryJune 14, 2018
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